Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 (edited) i am seeing a lot of fighting between people on the 2 issues of War and America some people are very pro war and some are more pacifistic. i see people who don't like america and others who tell them to get out of it. this uncalled for and uncharitibiable i am seeing 2 divisons among the phatmassers here: people who interperet the just war doctrine correctly and think of war as horribile and something only nessecary in dire Circumstances. and than those who are war mongers and those who VIew the Catholic Church as the bride of christ and that America is just a country using the Land that God gave us. and their are those here that think God wrote the Constitution and that the America gave us freedom. when in reality the Lord Gave us freedom. it is absurd that i am looking around the phorum and i see personal attacks on people because they are upset with America. because i am too. Their are as many injustices here as their is anywhere. America isn't what it used to be and it really never was. It was better than the monarchies of the time. But I would rather have a moral upstanding correct monarchy than a screwed up democracy. Becasue Truth isn't up to a democratic vote. we aren't the Catholic Church of America. i used to be just like you people who put America before God. But i know see that America is all about me me me. the Catholic Church is all about us. America is a greedy ans selfish. matthew 6:24 "No man can serve two masters. For either he will hate the one, and love the other: or he will sustain the one, and despise the other." Edited July 5, 2005 by Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eremite Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 [quote]'My country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would ever think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying 'My mother, drunk or sober.' --GK Chesterton[/quote] Patriotism is loving your nation despite the sinners who populate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted July 5, 2005 Author Share Posted July 5, 2005 what are you saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Extra, You've over simplified people's opinions and perspectives and have mischaracterized them. Your 'perception' of other's patriotism is inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted July 5, 2005 Author Share Posted July 5, 2005 enlighten me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 [quote][b]2239[/b] It is the duty of citizens to contribute along with the civil authorities to the good of society in a spirit of truth, justice, solidarity, and freedom. The love and service of one's country follow from the duty of gratitude and belong to the order of charity. Submission to legitimate authorities and service of the common good require citizens to fulfill their roles in the life of the political community.[/quote]Your country does not have to be 'perfect' to love it. Your government does not have to be 'perfect' to be loyal to it. Perfection resides in heaven, but we can love our country and our government for the good it does. Arguements have been made that supports the war as being Just. We may disagree, but that doesn't make one of us a war monger. You've classified people as being in "2 divisons among the phatmassers here". That's oversimplified and results in mischaracterization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rckllnknny Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 because truth isnt up to a democratic vote?? sounds to me like thats the definition of INJUSTICE... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtins Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 I love america but that doesnt mean I place it before God. God is A #1 in my book but I am still love my country and am very proud to be an american. I dont like some things my country or my govt does but I still love the country because of what it is. America is a gift from God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jul 5 2005, 04:53 AM'][. . .] people who interperet the just war doctrine correctly and think of war as horribile and something only nessecary in dire Circumstances. [. . .] [right][snapback]631981[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I think everyone agrees that war should be a last resort, but of course the determination of when all reasonable non-military options have been exhausted is a prudential judgment of the governing authorities, and not everyone may agree with that judgment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 America smells (ooohhhh, I'm liking the new smilies) I'm only messing. The reason people don't like America is because of [b]some[/b] Americans ( I emphasise 'some', because a) I don't want to get shouted at b) I'm sure not all Americans are horrid c) I'm actually quite scared of Americans) No one can say anything bad about America 'cause its just a big lump of land. Some people just have to understand that one country isn't better than another because it has a bigger army or more nuclear weapons, or whatever. Just make up your minds! You can't be American on the 4th July and Irish on 17th March!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 You truly have oversimplified opinions of others here on phatmass. Calling us "you people" and flaunting your opinion about like you are the only one that could be right is almost offensive (but again this is a [i]website[/i]). Patriotism is actually a very noble thing and I [b]am[/b] proud to say I'm an American. I don't always agree with everything the government does but that doesn't change for one minute my pride in my country. We have done very noble and honorable things. This country has been good to me and to my family and I again say that I am proud to be called American. Does all of this mean I put America before God? Absolutely NOT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 I got scared there. I thought you were talking to me at the beginning. Then I realised I didn't say 'you people' Phew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 [quote name='Noel's angel' date='Jul 5 2005, 09:03 AM']I got scared there. I thought you were talking to me at the beginning. Then I realised I didn't say 'you people' Phew [right][snapback]632041[/snapback][/right] [/quote] sorry about that! lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 its ok! Always good to be kept on my toes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rckllnknny Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 (edited) ok. im the one that said get out. if ya got a car that doesnt run...either fix it or buy another one. but dont sit around complaining trying to drag everyone else into a negative attitude towards the situation on a holiday that celebrates our freedom. either get involved in your community or government, to make the appropriate changes. because that IS democracy. it allows you the freedom to say what you want. and it gives me the right to agree or disagree. my seat in this world is to look at everything in a positive light and influence others to do the same. dont ruin MY holiday or the days thereafter. i heard mexicos got a pretty good way of running a country. go check it out... besides the majority of the people that exist DO believe that america is the most wealthiest, intelligent, and powerful country in the entire universe..of ALL time. and the rest of the world looks to us as a leader and influence. we all live like kings. be grateful. you dont think God will bring us out of hard times. thats not faith. and by far you have no loyalty. no more bah-humbugs eh?? Edited July 5, 2005 by rckllnknny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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