123 replies to this topic

[dairygirl4u2c]

ty

[avemaria40]

I voted no because, God gives us all free will and that person would be using free will.

[morostheos]

I voted I don't know because I can never know the disposition of any person's soul.

If one read everything on phatmass and was convinced that Catholicism was the fullness of the Truth, but still chose not to convert, then they are being unreasonable.

If they are not convinced, they are not being unreasonable.

[crusader1234]

I don't think so. God doesn't neccesarily reveal himself to people through reading Phatmass, there isn't really any recipe for personal revelation. Further, reading the boards, there are some distinctly non-Catholic opinions.

[FutureSoror]

Some people can be turned off by the same things that turn some people on. Everyone is at a different point on their spiritual journey, and while I would like to believe that everyone on phatmass is perfectly charitable and has an inspiring level of faith, the truth is that nobody and no place is perfect.

(I voted I don't know like morostheos)

[SanctitasDeo]

I think that unreasonable may be the wrong word. Although I am new here and have not yet read everything, I know that so far I have seen nothing much that would lead to my conversion. I also think that a message board is not necessarily the best way to convert someone but then, all things are possible.

[dUSt]

Well, you said everything. That's five years worth of debates, arguments and proof. That's a lot of information. Honestly, I don't know how one would be able to read it all and still not believe that the Catholic church is the one true church. That's just me though, and I'm generally very simple minded.

[point5]

I said no because reading and understanding are two different things

[SanctitasDeo]

I suppose I come to the question with a different perspective than most who post on these boards as I am one who is not Catholic. I question those who read eveything and hear all the proof about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and are not converted. I think that conversion requires the presence of the Spirit of God and that statistics would not help without it. People have this amazing ability to ignore reality in all aspects of their life. That is one reason for the amazing variance of American politics, for instance (That and the ability to misrepresent...).

[Raphael]

I voted no because, God gives us all free will and that person would be using free will.

In all fairness, that's not a valid argument...using free will properly would demand becoming Catholic, if one truly saw the faith of the Church.

Not to do so would be an act of using free will to a lesser extent than it was meant to be used.

[Funky_R]

I doubt if one was exposed to the truth that he would choose not to be Catholic. But there are people like that. Sometimes I think it's because they have different opinions that you just can't change, they're stubborn no matter how hard you try. Others it's because they've been exposed to part of the truth, but they weren't taught well enough to believe, which I think is more common, or they just deny the facts. Some ignore it, saying it's not true and living their life to please themselves, because they find that more appealing.

And yeah they're not very good reasons, but if you think about it there are people like this.

[Laudate_Dominum]

I refuse to speculate. But if I were to speculate I would say yes. Although there is more to conversion than just reading stuff. My conversion was based on an encounter with Christ and an ever deepening union with Him (when I'm not being a brat) through the life of the Church. Learning theology and all that only came after.

[cmotherofpirl]

It doesn't matter what you read, it matters what you understand. so you question needs reworded.
Free will is simply God giving you the chance to do the right thing. If you understand all the reasons to be Catholic, and God fills you with the grace of conversion and you don't convert you would be a fool.

[Terra Firma]

My conversion was based on an encounter with Christ and an ever deepening union with Him (when I'm not being a brat) through the life of the Church. Learning theology and all that only came after.

My experience was similar ... I recently did quite a bit of thinking about my conversion process ... generally when I tell the story, I focus in on the intellectual process and the thought progression I went through. But in reality, those thoughts were accompanied by emotional and spiritual experiences that were no less significant than the intellectual process. And in many ways, it was the spiritual and emotional events that tipped the scales in my becoming Catholic. Intellectual assent alone probably wouldn't have done it.

[Antonius]

I voted "yes" because it would be unreasonable to place the weight of conversion solely on a web forum.

Edited by Antonius, 16 October 2005 - 08:08 AM.

[Laudate_Dominum]

I voted "yes" because it would be unreasonable to place the weight of conversion solely on a web forum.

but this is phatmass..


:

[Theoketos]

I like to stand on the shoulders of giants like LD so I voted the same as he does, because your poll needs to be qualified more.

And this is PHATmass.

[cmotherofpirl]

to the spiritual giants who preceeded me.

[jmjtina]

I refuse to speculate. But if I were to speculate I would say yes.

yes. If your searching for the Truth, it would be unreasonable. But I'm pretty sure if you read everything, you would follow through with suggestions that state to visit a parish, go on retreat, pray a rosary, etc.

I think our Church Scholars could answer what you need and phatcatholic has tons of great stuff in that library. It's crazy to think anyone has read everything and understood it all and refused to be catholic.

[scardella]

Hrm...

Many people won't be swayed by a purely intellectual understanding of things. They have to take it to heart for it to touch them. If they were convinced that it was the truth (and in more than in a purely intellectual argumentative way), then, yes, that would be unreasonable. Then, you'd be like the rich young man.

I know that in my case, it was the argument of joy in the faces of people who were truly into their faith that sold me. Paul says that "faith comes from hearing." A lot of that is not simply the arguments that people hear. It's from the joy of the proclaimer and his living out of that faith that turns an eloquent speech into a moving exhortation.