Resurrexi Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 [quote]My grammar was proper. Your understanding of my use of the English language was incorrect.[/quote] your grammar was not proper, and my understanding of your use of the English language was correct. [quote]How about you keep more of an open mind and try and learn something from those of us who have the proper knowledge to teach you and catechize you.[/quote] there is plenty of proper knowledge at fisheaters and I will let the Baltimore Catechism and the Catechism of the Council of Trent catchize me, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Feb 12 2006, 10:09 PM']your grammar was not proper, and my understanding of your use of the English language was correct. there is plenty of proper knowledge at fisheaters and I will let the Baltimore Catechism and the Catechism of the Council of Trent catchize me, thank you. [right][snapback]885225[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I thought that you didn't go to fisheaters. Are you purposely misleading people on multiple threads? And fisheaters is a site that promotes the schism of the SSPX. I would strongly suggest that you steer clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 [quote]I thought that you didn't go to fisheaters. Are you purposely misleading people on multiple threads? And fisheaters is a site that promotes the schism of the SSPX. I would strongly suggest that you steer clear. [/quote] I never said that I didnt go to fisheaters. I asked the question "do you have any proof that I go to fisheaters?" I am sorry, SIR , but I find fisheaters very informative about the Catholic Faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Feb 12 2006, 10:16 PM']I never said that I didnt go to fisheaters. I asked the question "do you have any proof that I go to fisheaters?" I am sorry, SIR (edit smiley) , but I find fisheaters very informative about the Catholic Faith. [right][snapback]885240[/snapback][/right] [/quote] You need to settle down and start accepting proper catechesis. If you don't like the catechesis offered by this site, there is nothing keeping you here. Your anger is unwarranted. Thanks for calling me sir. I appreciate the respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 The system of government is of secondary importance. The virtue of the citizens and the government is of far greater importance. All systems can be corrupted. Absolute democracy (mob rule) leads to tyranny. A system with checks and balances on power is best - either a Republic or a constitutional Monarchy. As a Catholic, of course, I'd prefer the government recognize the authority of the Church, but we need to work with what he have. And it is not the job of clerics to be worldly princes and politicians - when this happens, politics is not redeemed, but the Church corrupted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 [quote name='Socrates' date='Feb 12 2006, 10:29 PM']And it is not the job of clerics to be worldly princes and politicians - when this happens, politics is not redeemed, but the Church corrupted. [right][snapback]885271[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well said. Think Cardinal Wolsey in "A Man For All Seasons". "If I had served my Lord half as well as I had served my king..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 [quote]Well said. Think Cardinal Wolsey in "A Man For All Seasons". "If I had served my Lord half as well as I had served my king..."[/quote] that's not the best example seeing as Wolsey was a heretic and a schismatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Feb 12 2006, 10:56 PM']that's not the best example seeing as Wolsey was a heretic and a schismatic. [right][snapback]885318[/snapback][/right] [/quote] What are you talking about? Cardinal Wolsey refused to succumb to Henry. As a matter of fact, King Henry asked Cardinal Wolsey to help him obtain the annulment and the cardinal recommended not to pursue such action; the king was determined and claimed that he doubted the validity of his marriage to the widow of his dead brother, Prince Arthur. Cardinal Wolsey, in his capacity of papal legate, formed a secret ecclesiastical court for May 17, 1527; the king testified having doubts about his marriage and asked for judgment; on May 31, the court declared that it was not qualified to decide such a delicate and difficult issue. The Privy Council recommended that the king aske the pope for a decision on the annulment; Cardinal Wolsey recommended to be sent to France to try to convince the French king to use his influence to persuade the pope to extend the legate's authority to judge on the case; he went to France in July; while the cardinal was away, the Boleyns worked to undermine his authority with the king, suggesting that Cardinal Wolsey was in reality working to prevent the annulment; when the cardinal went back to England in September, having failed in his mission, King Henry was already not sure of his loyalty. At that time, Pope Clement was a prisoner of Emperor Charles V, after the sack of Rome. Queen Catalina was actively seeking to avoid the annulment and the declaration of her daughter, Princes Mary Tudor, as illegitimate. The emperor told the pope that he has to oppose the annulment or allow the case to be tried in England. When the English ambassadors of the king and the cardinal saw Pope Clement in Rome, he cordially refused to grant a dispensation for an annulment. Cardinal Wolsey, knowing the monarch's increasing displeasure with development of the "great matter" and his lack of confidence in him, tried by all means to make the pope revisit his decision. England and France declared war on the Emperor in January 1528. King Henry sent Edward Fox, doctor of divinity, and Stephen Gardiner, doctor of both civil and canon law, to Rome to try to convince the pope to grant Cardinal Wolsey the power to rule on the king's case. The following April, Pope Clement agreed to send to England Italian cardinal Lorenzo Campeggio, to try the case with Cardinal Wolsey, but did not agree to give either cardinal the power to pronounce sentence. Cardinal Campeggio arrived in England at the end of September 1528. The proceedings began the following October 22; Cardinal Campeggio's suggestion that the king reconcile with the queen angered the former; to pacify King Henry, the Italian cardinal showed the king a bull that authorized him to adjudicate on the case. The king kept asking Cardinal Wolsey to get the bull from Cardinal Campeggio, but the former did not succeed. Complicating the situation, Anne Boleyn continued trying to convince King Henry that Cardinal Wolsey was not really trying to obtain the annulment. Despite the English cardinal's assurances to the contrary, King Henry did not believe him and forced the cardinal to ask King François I to urge Pope Clement VII to grant the divorce. In early 1529 the pope got ill and because of that, the court did not convene until May 20 of that year. During that interval, Cardinal Wolsey had done his best to obtain the bull from Cardinal Campeggio; finally in June the Italian cardinal told Cardinal Wolsey that the pope had prohibited the use of the bull. In July, Pope Clement, pressured by Emperor Charles V, rescinded the commission to Cardinals Campeggio and Wolsey, and the legatine court formally closed. Anne blamed Wolsey for the failure of the process. He was never excommunicated nor was he ever deemed to be a schismatic. He died as the administrator of Winchester on November 29, 1530, at 8 a.m., Leicester abbey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Thomas, You have got to stop claiming final authority and correctness on things you don't really know about. There are incredibly knowledgeable people on this site, For instance there are Masters of Theoogy, and philosophy and priests when it comes to theological/liturgical things. There are historians (like me and Don John!) and other university graduates from almost every field. I urge you to try to learn from your time here instead of pushing an agenda. Humility and openness are important even in debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 [quote]Queen Catalina[/quote] When she moved to Enlgand, her name became "Catherine Queen of Enlgand". That would be like calling Marie Antoinette Queen of France "Maria Antonia". Just saying... [quote]Princes Mary Tudor[/quote] excuse me, but her name is "Mary I Queen of Enlgand". Also, why do people call her "Mary Tudor". Do you ever hear people call Louis XVI King of France "Louis Bourbon" or how about Richard III King of England being refered to as "Richard York". It doesnt make sense to me. And also, there's also another famous Mary Tudor from history: Henry VIII's sister (she died before the schism and supported Catherine on the divorce "issue") so I'm like always "Which one" when someone says "Mary Tudor". It really bugs me so much! I mean really, you never hear Bloody LIzzie (or as the Prots call her "Elizabeth I") being called Elizabeth Tudor. It is just so annoying! [quote]He died as the administrator of Winchester on November 29, 1530, at 8 a.m., Leicester abbey.[/quote] OK, I agree with you. He was not excommunicated or schismatic. He died before the schism of 1534. He was by no means a good person though. He had several [mod]edit-language--hsm[/mod] children and, from what I've heard, wasn't the kindest person around. Just for the record, I love Tudor History and my favorite person from history is Mary I Queen of England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furay Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Age discrimination = ad hominem. Just stick with the argument at hand instead of attacking someone based on their youth. Show some class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) Edited February 13, 2006 by Era Might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Stick to the subject-- forms of government. Things not to debate in this thread: Grammar Age Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 [quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Feb 13 2006, 07:46 AM']Stick to the subject-- forms of government. Things not to debate in this thread: Grammar Age Thank you. [right][snapback]885615[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Old people are good at getting folks on track Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' date='Feb 13 2006, 12:12 AM']excuse me, but her name is "Mary I Queen of Enlgand". Also, why do people call her "Mary Tudor". Do you ever hear people call Louis XVI King of France "Louis Bourbon" or how about Richard III King of England being refered to as "Richard York". It doesnt make sense to me. And also, there's also another famous Mary Tudor from history: Henry VIII's sister (she died before the schism and supported Catherine on the divorce "issue") so I'm like always "Which one" when someone says "Mary Tudor". It really bugs me so much! I mean really, you never hear Bloody LIzzie (or as the Prots call her "Elizabeth I") being called Elizabeth Tudor. It is just so annoying![right][snapback]885520[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The Tudors are often referred to by last name because it helps distinguish them. My history prof does it all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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