Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

did Satan want Jesus to die?


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 Lounge Daddy

Lounge Daddy

    Hot in this room, isn't it?

  • Church Militant
  • 11,207 posts

Posted 17 March 2006 - 10:55 PM

my 6 year old asked this question
did Satan want Jesus to die when he became man?
did Satan want Jesus to suffer? i am sure
did Satan know the result of the death on the cross...?
what do you all think?

#2 missionseeker

missionseeker

    Life is either a daring adventure or nothing

  • Church Militant
  • 22,383 posts

Posted 17 March 2006 - 11:30 PM

I always thought that the whole agony in the garden was Satan trying to get Jesus to not die.
I thought that Satan would have to know that if God died, He'd go free all the souls that would belong to Satan if He didn't die.
I'm sure Satan took pleasure in seeing the Almighty and Knowing God stripped of His dignity. alone -in His own words forsaken,- and suffering like no mere human could. But it must have been bittersweet.

#3 rkwright

rkwright

    I Can Change My Own Title Now

  • Church Militant
  • 3,238 posts

Posted 17 March 2006 - 11:36 PM

He probably loved the fact that so many people were hating and abusing our Lord. He actually was probably there tempting Jesus right during all that, saying 'These are the people you are dying for???'

But in the end he knew of what was to happen... and hated that also.

I've also heard that the reason for the fall of Satan was because he saw in the future how God was going to give Himself up for man, and Satan couldn't tolerate that. I dunno just a story I heard...

Edited by rkwright, 17 March 2006 - 11:37 PM.


#4 toledo_jesus

toledo_jesus

    Edit me for Charity where appropriate! I don't mind.

  • Church Militant
  • 4,435 posts

Posted 18 March 2006 - 08:49 AM

Satan wanted Jesus to succumb to temptation and therefore fail. The movie (now don't anybody jump on the blasphemy wagon here) Last Temptation of Christ sort of explores this issue. What if Jesus had listened to Satan? Of course, I think He is tricked in that film (yeah right Scorsese), but still.
I'm fairly sure Satan was aware of what Christ's sacrifice meant.

#5 Paphnutius

Paphnutius

    PM Pham

  • Church Militant
  • 2,217 posts

Posted 18 March 2006 - 09:25 AM

Other would probably know better than I, but I think there is a tradition in the East about Christ being the bait to sort of committ espionage in Hell. A type of hook, line, and sinker thing. Christ became man so that He might die and enter hell to free those within. I would have to look more into it, but that is an oversimplification.

#6 jaime

jaime

    Floss, you'll feel better

  • Church Militant
  • 14,558 posts

Posted 18 March 2006 - 09:35 AM

Satan wanted Jesus to succumb to temptation and therefore fail.  The movie (now don't anybody jump on the blasphemy wagon here) Last Temptation of Christ sort of explores this issue.  What if Jesus had listened to Satan?  Of course, I think He is tricked in that film (yeah right Scorsese), but still.
I'm fairly sure Satan was aware of what Christ's sacrifice meant.

View Post



He wasn't tricked in Last Temptation.

#7 HisChild

HisChild

    Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner.

  • Church Militant
  • 4,131 posts
  • Catholic

Posted 18 March 2006 - 10:25 AM

Last Temptation was. .. interesting. I found that one could look at the sequence that makes up the controversial part of the film, almost like a dream sequence. .. a 'this is what would happen if you came down from the cross'. It does show His life were He to be a 'normal' man, and later, it shows the total lack of (any) faith of His apostles, almost to the point of despair. In the end, He is back on the cross, choosing it, instead of remaining in life on earth, as He saw that He wouldn't fulfill who He is without the cross. (In reality, we know that Jesus already knew that only the cross would save us, and be our bridge from earth to heaven.) I look at it well, as a temptation, the way satan brought him to various places, when He was in the desert. In the end, Jesus tells satan to go away, and thus, does it here as well. It's a different look at His life, to be sure, although speculative on the part of Scorsese, totally without Scriptural veractiy.

#8 MC Just

MC Just

    Defender of Ultramontanism

  • Church Militant
  • 4,945 posts

Posted 18 March 2006 - 10:27 AM

No of course he didnt want christ to die, because that meant Satan would lose. As he did.

Edited by MC Just, 18 March 2006 - 10:28 AM.


#9 HisChild

HisChild

    Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner.

  • Church Militant
  • 4,131 posts
  • Catholic

Posted 18 March 2006 - 10:36 AM

my 6 year old asked this question
did Satan want Jesus to die when he became man?
did Satan want Jesus to suffer? i am sure
did Satan know the result of the death on the cross...? 
what do you all think?

View Post


Oh I'm sure satan wanted Jesus to suffer, and to die, but I don't believe he wanted Him to die on the cross, to die for our sins, had he known what that death would mean. I'm not sure he knew the outcome of the death and resurrection. There are different thoughts on this. Some say he knew, others say he had an idea, but didnt know exactly how far reaching it truly was. Sorry I couldn't be of help.

#10 On Pilgrimage

On Pilgrimage

    PM Newbie

  • Chummy Commoner
  • 55 posts

Posted 19 March 2006 - 03:47 PM

my 6 year old asked this question
did Satan want Jesus to die when he became man?
did Satan want Jesus to suffer? i am sure
did Satan know the result of the death on the cross...?
what do you all think?

I think the answer is that Satan wanted Christ's suffering and death to lead him to disobedience and despair so that his mission to pour out the Father's love on man and to reunite man to the Father in obedience would fail. I also think that Satan, hating God as he did, couldn't have resisted enjoying the suffering and death of Christ.

As to the last question, I don't think Satan was fully aware of what would happen if Christ died obediently on the Cross.

#11 toledo_jesus

toledo_jesus

    Edit me for Charity where appropriate! I don't mind.

  • Church Militant
  • 4,435 posts

Posted 19 March 2006 - 03:52 PM

He wasn't tricked in Last Temptation.

View Post

in the movie he thought that little girl was an angel from the Father...or so I thought. She was really Satan though...or so I thought.

#12 uruviel

uruviel

    Deus Meus et Omnia!

  • Chummy Commoner
  • 12,403 posts

Posted 19 March 2006 - 07:44 PM

my 6 year old asked this question
did Satan want Jesus to die when he became man?
did Satan want Jesus to suffer? i am sure
did Satan know the result of the death on the cross...?
what do you all think?

Well, Satan knew Jesus was no ordinary man. He could do unatural things during His life. Satan was SO curious about Jesus, because he didn't know why or who He came from. He couldn't read His soul, it was blank. I think he probably suspected that Jesus could have been the son of man, but he, his suspicions hadn't been confirmed. So as to did he want Him to die? I don't know, he was boiling up inside to know Jesus, but He just couldn't. I think Satan wanted Jesus to suffer yes, he wants everyone to suffer, he mocks Jesus and God. I think he wanted Him to suffer, he was in the middle of all the persecution aka the passion. When Jesus died, Satan's suspicions WERE confirmed, and from then on he works triple to snatch our souls from God's hands. Jesus bought us... satan is fighting to bring us to hell. After Jesus died I would say satan knew He was the son of God. The Father Almighty,
that's my opinion.

#13 missionseeker

missionseeker

    Life is either a daring adventure or nothing

  • Church Militant
  • 22,383 posts

Posted 19 March 2006 - 10:01 PM

Satan knew Jesus was God.

Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 He fasted forty days and forty nights, and afterwards he was famished. 3 The tempter came and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread." 4 But he answered, "It is written, "One does not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.' " 5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and placed him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 saying to him, "If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down; for it is written, "He will command his angels concerning you,' and "On their hands they will bear you up, so that you will not dash your foot against a stone.' " 7 Jesus said to him, "Again it is written, "Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' " 8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor; 9 and he said to him, "All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me." 10 Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! for it is written, "Worship the Lord your God, and serve only him.' " 11 Then the devil left him, and suddenly angels came and waited on him.


1 Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness, 2 where for forty days he was tempted by the devil. He ate nothing at all during those days, and when they were over, he was famished. 3 The devil said to him, "If you are the Son of God, command this stone to become a loaf of bread." 4 Jesus answered him, "It is written, "One does not live by bread alone.' " 5 Then the devil F34 led him up and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6 And the devil F35 said to him, "To you I will give their glory and all this authority; for it has been given over to me, and I give it to anyone I please. 7 If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours." 8 Jesus answered him, "It is written, "Worship the Lord your God, and serve only him.' " 9 Then the devil F36 took him to Jerusalem, and placed him on the pinnacle of the temple, saying to him, "If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down from here, 10 for it is written, "He will command his angels concerning you, to protect you,' 11 and "On their hands they will bear you up, so that you will not dash your foot against a stone.' " 12 Jesus answered him, "It is said, "Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' " 13 When the devil had finished every test, he departed from him until an opportune time.

#14 Tink

Tink

    PM Pham

  • Church Militant
  • 1,778 posts

Posted 19 March 2006 - 11:01 PM

Well I am certainly no scholar and my knowledge in apologetics is oh so limited, but I believe Satan certainly knew what was to happen if and when Christ died on the cross, so he made the journey to that point as difficult as possible. I'd describe his attitude as 'if you can't be 'em, and you can't join 'em, give 'em hell before you lose.' He probably was taxing Jesus' spirit horribly from the very beginning, and I agree that He was probably the one attempting to lure Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane (The Passion hits this dead on, I think. If I remember correctly the devil was walking in circles around Jesus in the garden.). He is no doubt the one who inhabited the spirits of the many who mocked, spit on, and insulted Jesus on His way to Calvary, no doubt the one who incited Peter to deny Him, no doubt the bitterness upon the tongue of the thief who even at his death was contemptible and vile to our Lord. I don't believe he wanted Jesus to die because he knew of the consequences, but I believe he wanted him to suffer as much as possible. Had he been able to persuade him in the garden, he would not only have gained much power by persuading the King of Kings, but he would be able to torment him greatly with the guilt of not doing His Father's will. I hope that made sense, it was rather scatterbrained. I'm also not sure about the whole If-Satan-had-persuaded-Him thing, so if I'm wrong, someone please correct me! ^_^

Edited by Tink, 19 March 2006 - 11:03 PM.


#15 Illustro

Illustro

    Lurker

  • Chummy Commoner
  • 14 posts

Posted 20 March 2006 - 12:13 AM

Children are so beautiful.
And yes, satan did want Jesus dead. Here are the examples. And no, satan didn't know the result of the death on the cross...because he was surprised by what happened in hell, when Jesus went there to retrieve the Saints. I read about it in the Apocrypha.


St. Matthew Chapter 2
1: Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
2: Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
3: When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
4: And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.

7: Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, inquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.
8: And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.

11: And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.
12: And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.

16: Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men.

Revelation Chapter 12

1: And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3: And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4: And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5: And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6: And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7: And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8: And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9: And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

#16 Lounge Daddy

Lounge Daddy

    Hot in this room, isn't it?

  • Church Militant
  • 11,207 posts

Posted 22 March 2006 - 02:24 AM

WOW
thanx every one :)




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users