Gay Marriage vs. Impotent People

[zunshynn]

I need help explaining why gay marriage is not the same as impotent people being married. I tried to explain that technically if someone is impotent at the time of marriage then they aren't actually married because a marriage has to be consummated to be valid. But then I tried to explain that an impotent marriage is also not necessarily immoral because they aren't having sex. Anyway, it's not working. And he keeps saying that we have know natural way of knowing whether or not God calls people of the same sex to marriage... then I said that marriages have to be fruitful, and he was like, well who are you to say they aren't fruitful in other ways? Help.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

Impotency is a failure of nature to be the way it should be. (or to "work" the way it should...). Homosexual relationships are unnatural and anti-nature--they completely go against the dynamic of nature and the nature and meaning of sexual intercourse.

[MC IMaGiNaZUN]

[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='Mar 25 2006, 08:41 PM']Impotency is a failure of nature to be the way it should be. (or to "work" the way it should...). Homosexual relationships are unnatural and anti-nature--they completely go against the dynamic of nature and the nature and meaning of sexual intercourse.
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I think homosexual relationships also are radically opposed to the supernatural spiritual dynamic of the complimentarity of the different sexes.

(wait did i just make any sense)

SHALOM

[p0lar_bear]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='Mar 25 2006, 10:26 PM']I need help explaining why gay marriage is not the same as impotent people being married. I tried to explain that technically if someone is impotent at the time of marriage then they aren't actually married because a marriage has to be consummated to be valid. But then I tried to explain that an impotent marriage is also not necessarily immoral because they aren't having sex. Anyway, it's not working. And he keeps saying that we have know natural way of knowing whether or not God calls people of the same sex to marriage... then I said that marriages have to be fruitful, and he was like, well who are you to say they aren't fruitful in other ways? Help.
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A couple of things...first, a marriage doesn't have to be consummated to be valid. It has to be consummated to be indissolvable, but it is valid as soon as the vows are given.

Second, while someone who is permanently impotent cannot validly marry, someone who is permenantly infertile can. The ability to have children does not determine whether a marriage is valid, sacred, or indissolvable.


I think it would be better to focus on the nature of human sexuality and the conjugal act rather than the ability to have children. Homosexual relationships are wrong because they are inherently disordered and contrary to the natures God has given us.

[phatcatholic]

what is the difference between impotent and infertile?

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='phatcatholic' date='Mar 27 2006, 05:24 PM']what is the difference between impotent and infertile?
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one who is impotent is unable to engage in intercourse entirely. one who is infertile, while he/she can engage in the act of intercourse, the act lacks the ability to be fruitful (for whatever reasons).

[phatcatholic]

ohhhhhh, okay!! i've always wondered about that......

[Ziggamafu]

hmm...but wouldn't viagra eliminate the impotencey issue? does that mean that an impotent man is unable to marry or is gravely sinning by marrying?

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='Mar 28 2006, 09:20 AM']hmm...but wouldn't viagra eliminate the impotencey issue? does that mean that an impotent man is unable to marry or is gravely sinning by marrying?
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Not necessarily. Some impotencies cannot be cured...

I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure that impotency (permanent impotency) excludes one from the married life... i.e., they are ineligible in the eyes of the Church (because they cannot engage in the marital act)

[p0lar_bear]

Fides is right. Viagra and similar drugs only treat some types of impotency.

And yes, permanent impotency is an impediment to marriage.

[cappie]

in regards to impotent people:

From the Code of Canon Law;

Can. 1084 §1 Antecedent and perpetual impotence to have sexual intercourse, whether on the part of the man or on that of the woman, whether absolute or relative, by its very nature invalidates marriage.

§2 If the impediment of impotence is doubtful, whether the doubt be one of law or one of fact, the marriage is not to be prevented nor, while the doubt persists, is it to be declared null.

Impotence invalidates a marrige only if it is antecedent, perpetual and certain.

it is antecedent if the condition if present at the time of the marriage, it is perpetual if it cannot be cured, it is certain when it is not the subject of doubt.

What is important is #2. Since there is a fundamental right to marry, the exercise of that right may not be impeded save only where there is established with certainty the extence of some condition, circumstance or situation which would render a person incapable of exercising it.

In regards homosexual people....it's just a nonsense

[prodigalson]

As is common with the homosexual agenda- this person is trying to mix apples and oranges as if they are the same fruit. Firstly, Impotence and Homosexuality are two entirely different things- impotency, the person has no choice, nature has made that person impotent. Homosexuality is not natural again I say homosexuality is NOT NATURAL. A person who is homosexual is not born that way, impossible! I would also bring up the fact that marriages primary purpose is education and procreation of children! Again, not possible with same sex union!