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Chiquitunga

The Discalced Carmelite Nuns - 1990 & 1991 Constitutions

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Guest Perpetualove
Wow. Chiquitunga!

I FINALLY sat down last night and read this whole thread, and went to all the links and I feel like an expert on Carmel! I had read "The Fractured Face of Carmel" before, but this thread really helped explain a very complicated subject.

You have obviously done a ton of research. THANK YOU!

Buffalo does not have a website - is that right?

Also, I'm wondering about a couple of things...do the 1990 Carmels have double grilles and do they cover their face with a sheer veil when the possibility of being seen occurs? And do the 1990's practice corporal penance? And finally...do you know of a Monastery (I "want" to say that it happened in Rhode Island or Boston, but I am not sure!) that had some of the nuns "locked" inside in an almost revolt over suggested changes? Do you know what I am talking about? Was that in response to the 1990/1991 changes?

Thank you so much...for your knowledge and willingness to share has been invaluable!

Perpeutalove

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Guest Perpetualove
Chiquitunga,
I think it was the Danvers Monastery that had the problems - is this right? I cannot find a website for them. Are they 1990 or 1991? I'm sorry for the questions!
Perpetualove

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Guest Perpetualove
Oh....Laudem...thank you! Do you know if it was over the Constitutions?

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Guest Perpetualove
Oh....Laudem...thank you! Do you know if it was over the Constitutions?

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Laudem Gloriae
Actually, here's an old article on the Morristown Carmel's problem at [url="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE3DC1039F930A25753C1A96E948260"]http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...753C1A96E948260[/url] .

I they have settled the problems and are a 1990's Carmel.

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Guest Perpetualove
Thank you so much. This brings up another question, so I will start another thread! Thanks, Laudem!

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Chiquitunga

Also, the Discalced Carmelite Order has a new website now: http://www.discalcedcarmel.com/ For the addresses of the nuns, the monasteries under the 1990 Constitutions have a little asterisk next to their name. All of them are marked correctly this time, only Morristown again is marked, so I wonder if possibly they did switch over to the 1990's recently.

Hi! I just wanted to add, yes, the Morristown, NJ Carmel is under the 1990s. They switched from the 1991s, but I'm not sure when. Also, I had the first post in this thread edited way back early last year to read more like a history book, with more links, etc - so thus, the thread doesn't exactly flow right at the beginning - just something I thought I'd note here. It probably would have been better if I posted this in a blog or something, so I could edit it any time or add more information, etc. One thing I really wanted to correct was ..
 

The Fractured Face of Carmel article is written with a negative view on the 1990s. But yeah, it does say in the Time article that the 1581 Constitutions were written by Carmelite priests a year before St. Teresa died.

Nope, the 1581 Constitutions are definitely written by St. Teresa herself, just revised by the friars/her spiritual director, as I believe all of her writings were. These are the Constitutions she referred to at her death.

Finally, I wanted to add the new site of the Carmel of the Holy Spirit in England, http://www.kirkedge.org.uk/ They look really beautiful! God bless!

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ruso
The number of nuns who follow the constitutions of 1991, around the world, is of 9857 in 756 convents. Of the 1990, they are 1856 in 126 convents. According to the pontifical yearbook of 2007.
In Spain, We call "Maravillosas" to follow the constitutions of 1990, by the Mother Maravillas, a appropriate name, maravillosas mean wonderful.
I speak of Spain, and say that without doubt, those who most influenced the relaxation of Carmel, were the Carmelite friars, some very liberalized by here. Some interpreted the intervention of Pope John Paul II as a "coup of state" and i know of nuns8of 1991) who say that prioresses of the maravillosasl(1990), failed to read the constitutions of 1990 to your nuns, a very serious accusation.
In the USA there 60 Carmels, in Spain 147, more of the "Maravillosas", which no longer depend on the Carmelite order.

Carmelites "Maravillosas", constitutions of 1990

[img]http://www.ocd.pcn.net/Lucia_Saraiva.jpg[/img]


Carmelites constitutios of 1991

[img]http://www.carmelodaimiel.org/daimiel/imagenes/2.jpg[/img] Edited by ruso

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VeniteAdoremus
[quote name='MandyKhatoon' post='1634209' date='Aug 22 2008, 06:58 AM']Wow...what a difference![/quote]

Indeed...

Although I like them both. The 1991's style is very sleek and simple.

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MandyKhatoon
[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1634412' date='Aug 22 2008, 04:53 AM']Indeed...

Although I like them both. The 1991's style is very sleek and simple.[/quote]

I agree, the 1991's style is very sleek and simple, but at the same time I'm awed by the beauty of the traditional style habit. Think about the great carmelite saints: St. Teresa of Avila, St. Therese of Lisieux, St. Edith Stein, St. Teresa Margaret, Blessed Elizabeth of the Trinity, and all the others. I mean, that's the same type of habit they wore! If it was my vocation to be a carmelite nun, I would choose a convent that still has the traditional carmelite habit so to wear the same habit as the great carmelite saints. Of course I wouldn't choose a convent solely on the habit but it would be a big plus! :)

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ruso
[quote name='ruso' post='1633387' date='Aug 21 2008, 10:47 AM']The number of nuns who follow the constitutions of 1991, around the world, is of 9857 in 756 convents. Of the 1990, they are 1856 in 126 convents. According to the pontifical yearbook of 2007.
In Spain, We call "Maravillosas" to follow the constitutions of 1990, by the Mother Maravillas, a appropriate name, maravillosas mean wonderful.
I speak of Spain, and say that without doubt, those who most influenced the relaxation of Carmel, were the Carmelite friars, some very liberalized by here. Some interpreted the intervention of Pope John Paul II as a "coup of state" and i know of nuns8of 1991) who say that prioresses of the maravillosasl(1990), failed to read the constitutions of 1990 to your nuns, a very serious accusation.
In the USA there 60 Carmels, in Spain 147, more of the "Maravillosas", which no longer depend on the Carmelite order.

Carmelites "Maravillosas", constitutions of 1990

[img]http://www.ocd.pcn.net/Lucia_Saraiva.jpg[/img]


Carmelites constitutios of 1991

[img]http://www.carmelodaimiel.org/daimiel/imagenes/2.jpg[/img][/quote]

The fact is that I am wrong, the two communities remain the constitutions of 1991. Although the first are more traditional, the first is the community of Sister Lucia, the girl of Fatima aparitions.
Even so the style is as I said, almost all of 1991 have changed the habit, but the basic similarity.
This is the majority stile of the nuns of 1991 constitutions.

[img]http://www.carmeloaltea.org/maricarmen/DSC04657.JPG[/img]

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TotusTuusMaria
[quote name='ruso' post='1633387' date='Aug 21 2008, 03:47 AM']The number of nuns who follow the constitutions of 1991, around the world, is of 9857 in 756 convents. Of the 1990, they are 1856 in 126 convents. According to the pontifical yearbook of 2007.
In Spain, We call "Maravillosas" to follow the constitutions of 1990, by the Mother Maravillas, a appropriate name, maravillosas mean wonderful.
I speak of Spain, and say that without doubt, those who most influenced the relaxation of Carmel, were the Carmelite friars, some very liberalized by here. Some interpreted the intervention of Pope John Paul II as a "coup of state" and i know of nuns8of 1991) who say that prioresses of the maravillosasl(1990), failed to read the constitutions of 1990 to your nuns, a very serious accusation.
In the USA there 60 Carmels, in Spain 147, more of the "Maravillosas", which no longer depend on the Carmelite order.

Carmelites "Maravillosas", constitutions of 1990

[img]http://www.ocd.pcn.net/Lucia_Saraiva.jpg[/img][/quote]

I was going to ask if that was Sr. Lucia, but I figured the community you probably posted of was in Spain and she was in Portugal :P

That is interesting that Sr. Lucia was in a traditional 1991 Carmel. Thanks for posting the pictures. They are lovely. Where did you find the picture of the Carmel of Sr. Lucia?

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