Are You Pro-life

[Paladin D]

[b]My views on abortion:[/b]
I'm against it.

[b]Euthanasia:[/b]
I'm against it.

[b]Contraception:[/b]
I'm against it.


If you want to know why, pick up a Catechism. Though I will admit, contraception was the hardest teaching for me to eventually accept. Even now [i]sometimes[/i] I question it, but will still come to the same conclusion that it is morally wrong.

[Tiffalina]

I just think that these three things: abortion, euthanasia, and contraception mess up the natural "circle of life" (sorry to be so cliche", but it's true). I think that without these issues are basically just due to the selfish behaivor many in our world have today. Without these options, our world would be a much better place.

[God the Father]

[quote name='SaintOfVirtue' post='1434023' date='Dec 13 2007, 08:29 PM']Ah, excuse me, but in suggesting that the government raise them, give them a low-profit job, and care for them most their life would do two things: one that would make us communists by the fact that the government would have complete control over these poeples lives, they would be viewed as slaves, having no chance of adoption. second they would be raised without any religion having no moral standing or convictions they would more than likely end up on drugs and making more "little mistakes" as you so evilly put it. such a system would completely and utterly destroy all respect for life rather than improve it. in such a system when a cornically ill child shows up the government would have to kill him/her because they would not want to care for those who cannot work. soon children would be veiwed as slaves to do the governments bidding. I cannot describe the fire that burns at my insides as I write this I think you must be awfully heartless to be able to think up such a living H-e-l-l for some one. That system is just as bad as abortion itself.[/quote]

I know it's been two months, but:

Read my post again, because you understood very little of it in relative to the amount of judgments you've made about the state of my soul.

The government would raise them, yes, and it is a little communistic and liberal, which I don't like, but when infants are dying by however many a day then something needs to be done. The government would not have complete control over these people's lives, no more than the average parent has control over their children's lives. There would be a chance for adoption. Anyone who wants to save a would-be abortee would be welcome to do so. The government, in exchange for the help of the child, would finance a thirteen-year private education for the child. Once the child turns eighteen, he will be relieved of his duties as a civil servant, and with this education behind him, will have the opportunity to attain a very [i]high profit[/i] job. These people will probably not end up on drugs, given the nature of their education and the companionship that would arise among their friends. The children will certainly be allowed to practice whatever religion they wish. The children might be viewed as slaves by some, but once they become adults they would be emancipated, and some of the most well trained minds in society. Childhood for these kids might a little rough(as it is for many in today's society), but their living quarters would be acceptable and their food substantial, and their education top of the line, so to me that adds up better than being snuffed out. When a chronically ill child shows up the government would have to kill him/her if they were desperate, which is unlikely given the quadrillions that would be saved from foreign aid(and reclaimed human resources), and then what? How is that worse than being aborted? How you can even compare eighteen years of unconventional living to being killed in infancy is mind boggling to me.

I don't understand how figuring out how to save the lives of millions of people makes me heartless and evil.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='God the Father' post='1447503' date='Jan 18 2008, 03:26 PM']I don't understand how figuring out how to save the lives of millions of people makes me heartless and evil.[/quote]
You are satan.



lol

[sidemunch88]

I am realising that every body has lost there simple ways! And now that it is here I see it so clearly. I've come face. To face with the enemy!



Shine down

[ardillacid]

[quote name='pvtmiller' post='1455089' date='Feb 3 2008, 08:33 PM']I am realising that every body has lost there simple ways! And now that it is here I see it so clearly. I've come face. To face with the enemy!
[s]Shine down[/s][/quote]
Godsmack

[sidemunch88]

Tum I know that's not shine down. That's what needs to happen

[SaintOfVirtue]

[quote name='God the Father' post='1447503' date='Jan 18 2008, 01:26 PM']I know it's been two months, but:

Read my post again, because you understood very little of it in relative to the amount of judgments you've made about the state of my soul.[/quote]

First of all I did not say anything about the state of your soul, and I am sorry if you thought so. I do not judge peoples’ soul only their character. I simply said that it is cruel and heartless to even think of such a system as a solution to abortion. The solution you suggest is as corrupt as abortion itself.

[quote name='God the Father' post='1447503' date='Jan 18 2008, 01:26 PM']The government would raise them, yes, and it is a little communistic and liberal, which I don't like, but when infants are dying by however many a day then something needs to be done.[/quote]

Yes something needs to be done, but it is not the system you propose. The answer to stopping abortion is to simply have it outlawed and allow the children to be born and put up for adoption; there is no unwanted child.

[quote name='God the Father' post='1447503' date='Jan 18 2008, 01:26 PM']The government would not have complete control over these people's lives, no more than the average parent has control over their children's lives.[/quote]

The government should never have the same control over a person as the parent, the government should never be thought of as a parent.

[quote name='God the Father' post='1447503' date='Jan 18 2008, 01:26 PM']There would be a chance for adoption. Anyone who wants to save a would-be abortee would be welcome to do so.[/quote]

What’s wrong with just putting the child in an adoption/foster home to start with? It would be more normal than working on the streets for 12 + or – years.

[quote name='God the Father' post='1447503' date='Jan 18 2008, 01:26 PM']The government, in exchange for the help of the child, would finance a thirteen-year private education for the child. Once the child turns eighteen, he will be relieved of his duties as a civil servant, and with this education behind him, will have the opportunity to attain a very [i]high profit[/i] job.[/quote]

Would the child chose where he gets to go to school/college or would the government decide it for him? How much would the government put into his/her education?

Servant is just a ‘watered down’ word for slave.


[quote name='God the Father' post='1447503' date='Jan 18 2008, 01:26 PM']These people will probably not end up on drugs, given the nature of their education and the companionship that would arise among their friends.[/quote]

You would not believe the void that will enter them after twelve years of godlessness, nor would you believe what they will do to try and fill that void.

[quote name='God the Father' post='1447503' date='Jan 18 2008, 01:26 PM']The children will certainly be allowed to practice whatever religion they wish.[/quote]

And after twelve + years of being raised without God who will show them the light? The government, if you haven’t noticed, is constantly trying to do away with Him, we have taken him out of court rooms, out of schools, out of rehabilitation facilities for those suffering from addiction. The government certainly is not going to teach them about God (might even steer them away from Him) nor will the children learn any moral values.

[quote name='God the Father' post='1447503' date='Jan 18 2008, 01:26 PM']The children might be viewed as slaves by some, but once they become adults they would be emancipated, and some of the most well trained minds in society. Childhood for these kids might a little rough (as it is for many in today's society), but their living quarters would be acceptable and their food substantial, and their education top of the line, so to me that adds up better than being snuffed out. When a chronically ill child shows up the government would have to kill him/her if they were desperate, which is unlikely given the quadrillions that would be saved from foreign aid(and reclaimed human resources), and then what? How is that worse than being aborted? How you can even compare eighteen years of unconventional living to being killed in infancy is mind boggling to me.[/quote]

Such a system as you suggest simply will not work as you would like to think.

[quote name='God the Father' post='1447503' date='Jan 18 2008, 01:26 PM']I don't understand how figuring out how to save the lives of millions of people makes me heartless and evil.[/quote]

You have not figured out how to save millions of lives. You have found a different way of killing them. This system is wrong and morally offensive.

[slickchic34]

Wow!!! I'm back from the dead...lol
Well i'm sure glad i started this thread, it's seems that some of us have different opinion then others.
Which isn't a bad thing..it's just different.
Anway since were on the topic of life...
When do you believe it's right (if ever) to pull the plug on someone on life support or in a coma?
Personally, i don't think you should ever pull the plug on someone in a coma or on food and water. The problem i have is when it comes to a respirator or a heart pump...to me thats a sign from God that it's their time, because the body can no longer sustain the vital organs..there for if it wasn't for the technology of today (i'm not saying that or modern tech is bad) the person wouldn't be alive. Then again if God going to take the person, then he's going to go with or without the life support.
so i'm kind of iffy on that part of it...

What do you guys think about it?

[SaintOfVirtue]

[quote name='slickchic34' post='1481096' date='Mar 20 2008, 08:05 PM']Wow!!! I'm back from the dead...lol
Well i'm sure glad i started this thread, it's seems that some of us have different opinion then others.
Which isn't a bad thing..it's just different.
Anway since were on the topic of life...
When do you believe it's right (if ever) to pull the plug on someone on life support or in a coma?[/quote]

Most of this can be answered by the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Paragraph 2278; Part 3; Article 5; Page 549, "Discontinuing medical procedures that are burdensome, dangerous, extraordinary, or disproptionate to the expected outcome can be legitmate; it is the refusal of "over-zealous" treatment. Here one does not will to cause death; one's inability to impede it is merely accepted. The decisions should be made by the patient if he is competent and able or, if not, by those legally entitled to act for the patient, whose reasonable will and legitimate interests must always be respected."
Somewhat self explanitory but if it doesn't make sense PM me.

[quote name='slickchic34' post='1481096' date='Mar 20 2008, 08:05 PM']Personally, i don't think you should ever pull the plug on someone in a coma or on food and water. The problem i have is when it comes to a respirator or a heart pump...[/quote]

I agree up until the last part about respirators and heart pumps being as I have family on respirators who can still reason, talk, and walk just fine. Heart pumps are okay also, if thats what it takes.

[quote name='slickchic34' post='1481096' date='Mar 20 2008, 08:05 PM']to me thats a sign from God that it's their time, because the body can no longer sustain the vital organs..there for if it wasn't for the technology of today (i'm not saying that or modern tech is bad) the person wouldn't be alive.[/quote]

But it can be argued that had it not been for technology many people would still be alive. Case in point: car crashes claim lives each day, but does that mean we should stop driving? I do not believe that such are signs from God, because if it hadn't been for modern medical tech I would probaly be six feet under by now (long story).

[quote name='slickchic34' post='1481096' date='Mar 20 2008, 08:05 PM']Then again if God going to take the person, then he's going to go with or without the life support.
so i'm kind of iffy on that part of it...[/quote]

True, very true. When your times up, its up.







And last but not least:

[SaintOfVirtue]

[quote name='slickchic34' post='1481096' date='Mar 20 2008, 08:05 PM']Wow!!! I'm back from the dead...lol
Well i'm sure glad i started this thread, it's seems that some of us have different opinion then others.
Which isn't a bad thing..it's just different.
Anway since were on the topic of life...
When do you believe it's right (if ever) to pull the plug on someone on life support or in a coma?[/quote]

Most of this can be answered by the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Paragraph 2278; Part 3; Article 5; Page 549, "Discontinuing medical procedures that are burdensome, dangerous, extraordinary, or disproptionate to the expected outcome can be legitmate; it is the refusal of "over-zealous" treatment. Here one does not will to cause death; one's inability to impede it is merely accepted. The decisions should be made by the patient if he is competent and able or, if not, by those legally entitled to act for the patient, whose reasonable will and legitimate interests must always be respected."
Somewhat self explanitory but if it doesn't make sense PM me.

[quote name='slickchic34' post='1481096' date='Mar 20 2008, 08:05 PM']Personally, i don't think you should ever pull the plug on someone in a coma or on food and water. The problem i have is when it comes to a respirator or a heart pump...[/quote]

I agree up until the last part about respirators and heart pumps being as I have family on respirators who can still reason, talk, and walk just fine. Heart pumps are okay also, if thats what it takes.

[quote name='slickchic34' post='1481096' date='Mar 20 2008, 08:05 PM']to me thats a sign from God that it's their time, because the body can no longer sustain the vital organs..there for if it wasn't for the technology of today (i'm not saying that or modern tech is bad) the person wouldn't be alive.[/quote]

But it can be argued that had it not been for technology many people would still be alive. Case in point: car crashes claim lives each day, but does that mean we should stop driving? I do not believe that such are signs from God, because if it hadn't been for modern medical tech I would probaly be six feet under by now (long story).

[quote name='slickchic34' post='1481096' date='Mar 20 2008, 08:05 PM']Then again if God going to take the person, then he's going to go with or without the life support.
so i'm kind of iffy on that part of it...[/quote]

True, very true. When your times up, its up.

Edited April 6, 2008 by SaintOfVirtue

[Autumn Dusk]

[quote]Yes something needs to be done, but it is not the system you propose. The answer to stopping abortion is to simply have it outlawed and allow the children to be born and put up for adoption; there is no unwanted child.[/quote]

This is far too simplistic. White healthy babies are desirable, asians are next in line, followed by hispanics. There are black babies waiting for adoption, as well as babies with chronic diseases.

[zabbazooey]

Okay, I had the scariest (but most bizarre) dream last night that turned me to change my mind about abortion. Anyways, I've changed my stance to it's 100% wrong, all the time.

I'm still having the hardest time with contraception, though. I know it's wrong, and everything, but........I'm having a hard time practicing what the church tells us.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='zabbazooey' post='1494343' date='Apr 7 2008, 04:24 PM']Okay, I had the scariest (but most bizarre) dream last night that turned me to change my mind about abortion. Anyways, I've changed my stance to it's 100% wrong, all the time.

I'm still having the hardest time with contraception, though. I know it's wrong, and everything, but........I'm having a hard time practicing what the church tells us.[/quote]
Do tell us about the dream! That's intense... and awesome! ... And about the contraception thing: I think it's fairly common to have a hard time. Keep on keepin' on, girl! You can do it.

[zabbazooey]

Thanks, hughey. Well it's a REALLY weird dream, and could never happen in real life but here goes:

I dreamt I gave birth to a baby boy, and he went into cardiac arrest. The hospital was not "pro-life" so they didn't even attempt to revive him, saying he "obviously wasn't viable"

It really made me realize that ALL babies, whether they are in the womb or not are human, and deserve a right to live.

Being a "parent" in my pretend dream, I was really shaken up, and my heart sunk to my feet. I couldn't imagine actually "choosing" to do something like that to my own child.

I can't even believe I was apathetic about the issue of abortion before. I mean, it really shook me up. But I guess that's a good thing