Jump to content
An Old School Catholic Message Board

Charismatic Movement


Guest thalameguy

Recommended Posts

Guest thalameguy

Hi, I have been a member of a catholic, charismatic youth group for several years now but I'm starting to have questions about certain things we do. I want to hear how the Catholic church views this movement instead of hearing people within the group telling me about it for a change.

We have this kind of ceremony in retreats called "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" or a pray over.
It is when a person in a sense prays over another person, usually praying for the Holy Spirit to stir within them.
The metaphor I've been told is chocolate milk; we our milk, and at our baptism in the church, chocolate syrup is poured into ourselves, but sinks to the bottom. The pray over session at the retreat stirs that chocolate and changes it into chocolate milk, signifying a new life.

I've been told that this practice is perfectly within the confines of Church doctrine, but have been told that we shouldn't call it a baptism since we only have one baptism. Any clarification would be nice.

Also, the Charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit are something I've always questioned and wondered.
My leaders view tongues as a form of praise towards God, a sort of one way communication meant for His understanding only. So I've heard them just use tongues out of no where but no one interpreting it.

I've heard from a religious teacher of mine that the Catholic church only views tongues as legitimate if it is a message from God and someone is able to interpret it.

I've had members of my youth group have "visions" and "voices from god". I am very skeptical about these things and don't know if the Church has some sort of guidelines to the legitimacy of such things.

Also, I've heard the term "Slain in the Spirit" when someone is apparently resting in the spirit where they fall over and lose control of their body in a peaceful manner.

Don't get me wrong, I love my charismatic youth group and they have helped me a lot in my journey with Christ, but there are just some questions that I would like cleared up. If you are just going to bash on this movement, please do it respectfully and with reason, but from what I've seen on a whole, I don't believe we are doing anything against the Church, it is just these small things that are bothering me. Thanks for reading this and taking time to respond!

Rence

Link to comment
Share on other sites

welcome to phatmass!

I would bet there are many on the board who can relate to your story. I haven't researched the legitimacy of many of the charismatic practices myself, but I have several times had the same questions. anyways, i hope you find what you're looking for...

God Bless,
Didy+

Edited by Didymus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would have to say that the priests and people at my parish would discourage charismatic practices, but then again, I go to the Forma Extraordinaria (of course, at a parish in communion with the bishop and the Pope).

Edited by StThomasMore
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am charismatic. I attend a Catholic parish that our Bishop founded for charismatic Catholics. I thinking having a parish where charismatic spirituality is welcome and normal in all settings has really helped people there understand how to be both traditionally Catholic and Charismatic at the same time; to normalize it in the life of the Churcu.

I would be glad to talk to you more about these things, but I prefer not to do so in a public Phatmass phorum, because it just tends to lead to attacks, which upset me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Church Punk

Welcome to phatmass, and the Phamily.

This problably wont help very much as I dont have much experiance with the charismatic movement.

When I was younger I was involved with several retreats and one church, but I have never seen any speaking in tounges or resting in the spirit which many of my friends had witnessed before.

I have always questioned the speaking in tounges bit, maybe i just dont understand it, but isnt speaking in tounges when you begin speaking in a forgine language to an audiance for the greater glory of God, like the apostles did? I fail to see how the said speaking of tounges during these services equates to the biblical definition with the apostles. If someone can carify this, please enlighten me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[url=http://ccc.garg.com/index.php?name=FAQ[/url]may be a good place to go to get some answers to some of your questions.

You may also wish to check out [url="http://iccrs.org/"]International Catholic Charismatic Renewal Services[/url], which is recognized by the Pontifical Council for the Laity and has offices in Vatican City.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i have a deep appreciation to the Charistmatic movement and what it does for the church.

In a sense I'm a traditional charismatic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='thalameguy' post='1348608' date='Aug 3 2007, 01:39 PM']Hi, I have been a member of a catholic, charismatic youth group for several years now but I'm starting to have questions about certain things we do. I want to hear how the Catholic church views this movement instead of hearing people within the group telling me about it for a change.[/quote]

The movement as a whole is recognized by the Holy See. Last Pentecost, one of CCRNO's (Catholic Charismatic Renewal of New Orleans) leaders, Patti Mansfield, spoke at the big Pentecost Mass in Rome.

[quote]We have this kind of ceremony in retreats called "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" or a pray over. It is when a person in a sense prays over another person, usually praying for the Holy Spirit to stir within them. The metaphor I've been told is chocolate milk; we our milk, and at our baptism in the church, chocolate syrup is poured into ourselves, but sinks to the bottom. The pray over session at the retreat stirs that chocolate and changes it into chocolate milk, signifying a new life.

I've been told that this practice is perfectly within the confines of Church doctrine, but have been told that we shouldn't call it a baptism since we only have one baptism. Any clarification would be nice.[/quote]

First, I've heard reports that people have experienced the charismatic gifts not in connection with the "official" baptism in the spirit. In some sense, lots of gifts from the Holy Spirit are charismatic gifts if you consider charismatic gifts to be gifts of the Holy Spirit for the building up of the Body of Christ. The baptism in the spirit is certainly making no claims (at least within catholic circles) that it is necessary for salvation, etc. Calling it baptism in the spirit is there more for historical and convenience sake.

[quote]Also, the Charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit are something I've always questioned and wondered.
My leaders view tongues as a form of praise towards God, a sort of one way communication meant for His understanding only. So I've heard them just use tongues out of no where but no one interpreting it.

I've heard from a religious teacher of mine that the Catholic church only views tongues as legitimate if it is a message from God and someone is able to interpret it.

I've had members of my youth group have "visions" and "voices from god". I am very skeptical about these things and don't know if the Church has some sort of guidelines to the legitimacy of such things.

Also, I've heard the term "Slain in the Spirit" when someone is apparently resting in the spirit where they fall over and lose control of their body in a peaceful manner.[/quote]

Tongues has some controversy to it... charismatics distinguish between "prophetic tongues" and "prayer tongues." Prophetic tongues (which I have seen) is as you say. One person speaks in tongues (not necessarily a recognizable language, btw) and another interprets. Prayer tongues seems to not always necessarily be "charismatic" in the strict (building up of the body) sense. If you had to ask me for a definition of prayer tongues, it is the Holy Spirit giving us words to express to God things which are ineffable in our language.

As for being slain in the spirit, all I can offer is my personal experience with it. I've had it happen to me while being prayed over, and while in adoration with nobody praying over me. Normally the immediate effect is a great feeling of peace. I've seen people almost brace themselves against it and it still winds up happening. In my experience, it's almost like you're concentrating in prayer and allowing God to work in you, and your legs basically stiffen and you wind up falling back without even really realizing it until it happens. A few times, I've actually lost touch with everything going on around me for a half-hour or more, and it was very deep prayer. In one particular experience about 8-9 years ago, I did have a vision which I remember very vividly. After it was over and I regained my whereabouts, my relationship with my sister changed instantly, drastically and permanently. I had had a very antagonistic relationship with her up until that point. Afterwards, we were much closer and supportive of one another, particularly in terms of the faith.

As for guidelines for visions and words, there are two hard and fast things to look for: fruits and conformity to public Revelation. If it isn't in line with the Catholic Church, it's bunk. If it's sketchy, don't worry about it. Note that God communicates clearly. (Sometimes we read stuff into it that's not there. I've got a story about that!) If it isn't crystal clear obvious that, say, a word being given is about you, then ignore it.

[quote]Don't get me wrong, I love my charismatic youth group and they have helped me a lot in my journey with Christ, but there are just some questions that I would like cleared up. If you are just going to bash on this movement, please do it respectfully and with reason, but from what I've seen on a whole, I don't believe we are doing anything against the Church, it is just these small things that are bothering me. Thanks for reading this and taking time to respond!

Rence[/quote]

BTW, I don't think that being "charismatic" in the sense that it's popularly used is necessarily for everyone. In the same way, I don't think going to a Tridentine mass on a regular basis is necessarily for everyone. It's the same reason we have Franciscans (the best!), Jesuits, Dominicans, etc. However, everyone should follow the call to holiness wherever that leads them. I have a number of friends whose faith was ignited by the charismatic movement, but later decided that they loved the faith, but the charismatic movement wasn't for them. They went to a more traditional expression of the faith. Things have certainly happened the other way as well. Some people had a traditional faith because that's all they have known, but when introduced to the charismatic movement, they felt like a fish that had finally found water.

Is any of this helpful?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally, I'm very anti-Charismatic.

[url="http://charismatic-heresy.blogspot.com/"]http://charismatic-heresy.blogspot.com/[/url]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='the_rev' post='1348761' date='Aug 3 2007, 04:07 PM']i have a deep appreciation to the Charistmatic movement and what it does for the church.

In a sense I'm a traditional charismatic.[/quote]

me too...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='St. Benedict' post='1349005' date='Aug 3 2007, 06:18 PM']Personally, I'm very anti-Charismatic.

[url="http://charismatic-heresy.blogspot.com/"]http://charismatic-heresy.blogspot.com/[/url][/quote]


while you may not have a charismatic spirituality, how can it be a heresy when the charismatic renewal is a movement approved by the vatican? :mellow:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote]In March 1992, Pope John Paul II stated "At this moment in the Church's history,[i] the Charismatic Renewal can play a significant role in promoting the much-needed defense of Christian life in societies where secularism and materialism have weakened many people's ability to respond to the Spirit and to discern God's loving call.[/i] Your contribution to the re-evangelization of society will be made in the first place by personal witness to the indwelling Spirit and by showing forth His presence through works of holiness and solidarity."[/quote]

I admit that I used to be skeptical of the Charismatic Renewal, but after having been to a Steubenville Youth Conference and actually experiencing something so [i]powerful[/i] and [i]moving[/i], I've definitely changed my opinion.

Edited by tvu_srfan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

brendan1104

As with all other controversial topics, we've already discussed and debated the charismatic movement many times. Just do a search. May the Holy Spirit truly be your guide, and never doubt your [i]sensus Catholicus[/i]. No doubt that is what's led you to ask these questions. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't have any serious issues with the Catholic charismatic movement. It makes the Catholic Church diverse, united under one Faith and one Truth.

Edited by Paladin D
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...