Praise And Worship

[Lord Philip]

[quote name='scardella' post='1413232' date='Nov 2 2007, 11:18 AM']Is this what are you talking about?
Letsee... some are quite scriptural:

"Your Love Oh Lord" by Third Day
Your love, oh Lord
Reaches to the heavens
Your faithfulness stretches to the sky
Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains
Your justice flows like the ocean's tide
I will lift my voice
To worship You, my King
I will find my strength
In the shadow of your wings

Psalm 36:6-8
LORD, your love reaches to heaven; your fidelity, to the clouds.
Your justice is like the highest mountains;
your judgments, like the mighty deep;
all living creatures you sustain, LORD.
How precious is your love, O God!
We take refuge in the shadow of your wings.

A few more examples:
Better is one day -> Psalm 84
That where I am -> John 14
Creed (Rich Mullins) -> Apostle's Creed[/quote]

Do you see what I mean, Scardella and hot stuff?

It is pointless to argue about lyrics because all each side will do is throw 'praise and worship' lyrics at one another. This is ridiculous. There is no argument going on here.

There are some with excellent lyrics, there are some with so-so lyrics, and there are some with terrible lyrics. Changing the lyrics of the bad ones to good, scriptural lyrics will not solve the problem. The problem is aesthetic.

God bless,

Philip

[SJP]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1413199' date='Nov 2 2007, 01:03 PM']I want to leave this world when I enter a church. I don't want to be reminded of it. To all of the prasie and worship advocates... I beg of you, stop trying to bring the world into the mass, and let me [b]please[/b] retain one of the only escapes I have left from this world. Is it too much to ask for that one hour a week?[/quote]

I Totally agree, I remember going to a Parish that was big on P&W well before I knew anything about Sacred Music and I could sense that something was very wrong. Were it not for the Mass itself, you would think you were at some sort of terrible 70's folk concert.

At that time in my Faith journey, it almost became a real issue. I remember looking around and thinking, "ok if this is supposed to be the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, Jesus Christ present on the Altar, why the heck are all these people singing these sappy songs?"

Needless to say, attending the Tridentine Mass has solved those problems!

[Totus Tuus]

I love praise and worship sessions, but I think they would be totally out of place in the Holy Mass, and detract from its solemnity.

[mortify]

Is p&w basically a music concert at mass?

[jeffpugh]

Sorta. Especially the way some verses keep going and going. Not talking about the lyrics... just the abababaca form....

[mortify]

I'm just trying to see the difference between singing the gather hymnal with instruments and p&w

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Lord Philip' post='1413335' date='Nov 2 2007, 06:45 PM']The problem is aesthetic.[/quote]

But the problem is that aesthetics contains an emotional/subjective element, so we are back to square one where people are arguing personal preferences.

I find analyzing the lyrics for theolgical correctness and whether it can be played on appropriate instrumentation to be a more objective standard.

[rkwright]

I feel there might be one other point to consider... I think the spectrum of "Praise and Worship" songs is extremely vast, and there might be a few out there that are completely appropriate for the mass. If some of those songs in the Gather book are ok for mass, I'm not sure why certain, limited, praise and worship songs could not be used for the mass.

This comes with a huge disclaimer from me. I don't personally know of any of these types of songs (granted I don't know much praise and worship). But to say all P&W doesn't belong in the mass seems to be wrong (universals are strong statements!)

It seems to me that in determining what is 'allowed', look to the criteria are set forward...
De Musica Sacra lays out what sacred music is, and what is allowed.

P&W would either have to fall within the hymns section or religious music section. (Para. 4) The big difference: Hymns are allowed in the mass, religious music is not.
Hymns are defined in Para. 9:
[quote]9. Hymns are songs which spontaneously arise from the religious impulses with which mankind has been endowed by its Creator. Thus they are universally sung among all peoples.

This music had a fine effect on the lives of the faithful, imbuing both their private, and social lives with a true Christian spirit (cf. Eph 5:18-20; Col 3:16). It was encouraged from the earliest times, and in our day it is still to be recommended for fostering the piety of the faithful, and enhancing their private devotions. Even such music can, at times, be admitted to liturgical ceremonies (Musicæ sacræ disciplina, Dec. 25, 1955; AAS 48 [1956] 13-14).[/quote]
I would guess the Gather Hymnal is part of this (though honestly that might be up for debate...)

Religious music, which is not allowed is
[quote]10. Religious music is any music which, either by the intention of the composer or by the subject or purpose of the composition, serves to arouse devotion, and religious sentiments. Such music "is an effective aid to religion" (Musicæ sacræ disciplina, idem.). But since it was not intended for divine worship, and was composed in a free style, it is not to be used during liturgical ceremonies.[/quote]
This is where I think that [i]most[/i] P&W falls short. I don't think it is intended for worship as Catholic worship (not intended for the Mass). If it was composed by a protestant, how can it be intended for a Catholic mass?
I say most, because there might exist somewhere, some P&W song that is intended for divine worship.

To Lord Phillip:
St. Anselm is a personal favorite of mine "For I do not seek to understand that I may believe, but I believe in order to understand."

I think the proper understanding of why this is the rule of the Church is found well within earlier paragraphs of the documents I'm quoting. Though I don't intend to reproduce all the paragraphs here, and I'm sure you've read them.

A simple explanation would be: The Mass is divine worship, so our music should be intended for the same ends. (To borrow from the language used in the documents)

Edited November 3, 2007 by rkwright

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='SJP' post='1413372' date='Nov 2 2007, 08:27 PM']Needless to say, attending the Tridentine Mass has solved those problems![/quote]


Heck yes!