Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Selah

If Mary Was A Perpetual Virgin...

Recommended Posts

Selah
Matthew 1:24-25:

Matthew 1:24-25: Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: [i]And knew her not [/i] till she had brought forth her firstborn son and he called his name JESUS.

I know that...well, "know" can be a word used in the Bible that means to have relations with a spouse. So, this verse does seem to suggest that Mary only remained a virgin until after Jesus was born.

Just a little confused...what do you think of this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HisChildForever
[quote]2) A second objection to Mary's virginity arises from the use of the word heos in Matthew's gospel. "He (Joseph) had no relations with her at any time before (heos) she bore a son, whom he named Jesus" (Mt 1:25, NAB).

The Greek and the Semitic use of the word heos (until or before) does not imply anything about what happens after the time indicated. In this case, there is no necessary implication that Joseph and Mary had sexual contact or other children after Jesus.[/quote]

Source: [url="http://www.ewtn.com/faith/Teachings/maryc2.htm"]http://www.ewtn.com/faith/Teachings/maryc2.htm[/url]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HisChildForever
Have some more. :)

[quote]"After the birth of Jesus," said the false teacher Helvidius in the 4th century, and likewise many others before and after him, "Mary entered into conjugal life with Joseph and had from him children, who are called in the Gospels the brothers and sisters of Christ." But the word "until" does not signify that Mary remained a virgin only until a certain time. The word "until" and words similar to it often signify eternity. In the Sacred Scripture it is said of Christ: In His days shall shine forth righteousness and an abundance of peace, until the moon be taken away (Ps. 71:7), but this does not mean that when there shall no longer be a moon at the end of the world, God's righteousness shall no longer be; precisely then, rather, will it triumph. And what does it mean when it says: For He must reign, until He hath put all enemies under His feet? (I Cor. 15:25). Is the Lord then to reign only for the time until His enemies shall be under His feet?! And David, in the fourth Psalm of the Ascents says: As the eyes of the handmaid look unto the hands of her mistress, so do our eyes look unto the Lord our God, until He take pity on us (Ps. 122:2). Thus, the Prophet will have his eyes toward the Lord until he obtains mercy, but having obtained it he will direct them to the earth? (Blessed Jerome, "On the Ever-Virginity of Blessed Mary.") The Saviour in the Gospel says to the Apostles (Matt. 28:20): Lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Thus, after the end of the world the Lord will step away from His disciples, and then, when they shall judge the twelve tribes of Israel upon twelve thrones, they will not have the promised communion with the Lord? (Blessed Jerome, op. cit.)[/quote]

Source: [url="http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/evervirgin.aspx"]http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/evervirgin.aspx[/url]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
thessalonian
The Bible is not a manual about Mary and Joseph's sex life. It tells us what happened "until" that point. Not after. If you look at some of the passages in the Old Testament the word "heos" in the greek only implies up until that point and does not mean that we can assume the opposite after, which we have a tendancy to do in the English, though not always and universally is it valid. We always have to remember the language and culture of the people was considerably different from ours when we read the scriptures. Even from British English to American English there are significant differences. For example when a Brit says "that's a bloody mess" we would call the police if we did not understand that they did not mean that some person had been hacked apart, but that it was simply a big mess. How much more the differences between English and Hebrew and our culture and theirs. Edited by thessalonian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dominicansoul
This was written in such a way, as to show that Jesus was not conceived in the natural way, and St. Joseph was NOT his father. It was to emphasize that Jesus was the Son of God, and that is why this was written as such. It is not indicating that Mary and Joseph began having marital relations afterwards. The sentence's whole purpose was to let us know, those of us who are reading it thousands of years after the fact, that Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of GOD. (*sigh* Beautiful isn't it???) :love: Edited by dominicansoul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
StColette
I would like to go more in depth into this topic. It's actually one of my faves. But until I find time to. Here a ton of information from the Defense Directory [url="http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat/12"]http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat/12[/url]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
abercius24
Funny as it is, even my modern Middle Eastern and Greek speaking friends have the same concept of the word "until" when they speak English. It's a very common understanding of the word from that region.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mommas_boy
I also recommend the [url="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0847.htm"]Protoevangelium of James[/url]. It paints the picture that Mary was a consecrated virgin who lived at and took care of the temple. The problem was, these girls could not live at the temple after they reached puberty because it was considered unclean by the Jews. Thus, all of these consecrated virgins were betrothed to a man who's job it was to take care of them and protect them and provide them a place to stay so that they could go to the temple and work during the day, but were not to sleep with them. So, when Mary as a consecrated virgin conceived outside of the marital act, it only made sense that she would remain a virgin to uphold her vow. If anything, the vow probably gained a deeper character with Christ's conception and birth. Edited by mommas_boy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mommas_boy
Oops. Just saw that it was included in the defense directory mentioned by someone else. Edited by mommas_boy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Theosopher
Even today, in English, we frequently use the word "until" in this way, not necessarily implying a change in the condition.

For instance, I once heard a very vain woman, who was told she needed glasses, say, "I do not need glasses!! My mother didn't need glasses until the day she died!!" Does she mean to say that the mother needed glasses after she was dead? What a waste that would have been. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nihil Obstat
[quote name='StColette' post='1638750' date='Aug 26 2008, 01:17 PM']I would like to go more in depth into this topic. It's actually one of my faves. But until I find time to. Here a ton of information from the Defense Directory [url="http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat/12"]http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat/12[/url][/quote]
StColette, I read your article a while back on perpetual virginity. It was amazing! I emailed it to my mom because she said something along the lines of "I think there was a mistranslation somewhere down the line with that." :))

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jeffpugh
[quote name='mommas_boy' post='1639245' date='Aug 26 2008, 11:44 PM']I also recommend the [url="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0847.htm"]Protoevangelium of James[/url]. It paints the picture that Mary was a consecrated virgin who lived at and took care of the temple. The problem was, these girls could not live at the temple after they reached puberty because it was considered unclean by the Jews. Thus, all of these consecrated virgins were betrothed to a man who's job it was to take care of them and protect them and provide them a place to stay so that they could go to the temple and work during the day, but were not to sleep with them. So, when Mary as a consecrated virgin conceived outside of the marital act, it only made sense that she would remain a virgin to uphold her vow. If anything, the vow probably gained a deeper character with Christ's conception and birth.[/quote]
Could this be used in an argument with protestants. It's "extra-biblical", no?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Paddington
[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1660521' date='Sep 21 2008, 04:59 PM']Could this be used in an argument with protestants. It's "extra-biblical", no?[/quote]

You should totally use "consecrated virgin" thing in a social/historical layer.
Assuming that it is witnessed to by history.
The Protoevangelium of James itself..I don't think so, because it's not even in the Catholic Bible. :) Edited by Paddington

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
phatcatholic
Just to expound on what other people have said, Catholic Legate has pretty much [i][b]demolished[/b][/i] the whole "until" argument that Protestants try to use. You can read their many works on this topic [url="http://www.catholic-legate.com/articles/heosindex.html"][b]here[/b][/url].

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...