Sex And Sin Question, Help Is Needed Please

[havok579257]

Ok, as I continue to grow and learn about my faith, new questions arise. So I understand in marriage for sex we are called to:

Glorify God
Be unnitive
Open to Life

Now I know not doing any of those willingly is a sin but the question I had is, what if its not willingly. Like during oral/manual stimulation, lets say a man gets a little TOO excitied and does not end the right way. Is he sinning then and if so is it a mortal sin or a venial sin. Any help answering this is much appriciated.

[Ziggamafu]

It would almost certainly still be a sin, though very likely a venial sin.

Any sin that is not committed with full knowledge (read: full awareness & full faculties of reason) or full consent (read: deliberation & advertence) is not mortal. Period.

Remember that to sin mortally is to deliberately reject Christ by means of violating his moral truths, thereby destroying all charity within your soul. That does not happen by accident or by weakness.

[i]Which is not to say that sins of weakness / ignorance are not serious[/i] - venial sin is indeed a serious thing; it can even destroy your life here in this world. But the difference between venial and mortal sin is that venial sin can only "weigh down" your life in the next world - not destroy it completely.

Find a good moral theology book and take advantage of it.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1645225' date='Sep 2 2008, 08:45 AM']It would almost certainly still be a sin, though very likely a venial sin.

Any sin that is not committed with full knowledge (read: full awareness & full faculties of reason) or full consent (read: deliberation & advertence) is not mortal. Period.

Remember that to sin mortally is to deliberately reject Christ by means of violating his moral truths, thereby destroying all charity within your soul. That does not happen by accident or by weakness.

[i]Which is not to say that sins of weakness / ignorance are not serious[/i] - venial sin is indeed a serious thing; it can even destroy your life here in this world. But the difference between venial and mortal sin is that venial sin can only "weigh down" your life in the next world - not destroy it completely.

Find a good moral theology book and take advantage of it.[/quote]


Ok, see this is where I am confused. A priest who I talked to, to help me learn more about my faith said something like this is not a sin. He said someone would not need to go to confession for this. He said since intent was to end correctly and it was an accident, there is nothing to feel ashamed about.


So which is it. Any help would be appriciated.

[Vincent Vega]

Well, you [i]don't[/i] need to go to confession for venial sins. It doesn't hurt to mention them while you're in there, but they are absolved at the beginning of every mass (Kyrie), unless I'm mistaken.

[havok579257]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1645645' date='Sep 2 2008, 06:01 PM']Well, you [i]don't[/i] need to go to confession for venial sins. It doesn't hurt to mention them while you're in there, but they are absolved at the beginning of every mass (Kyrie), unless I'm mistaken.[/quote]


but is this a sin or not? venial sin or not?

[Vincent Vega]

Well, I have an opinion, but I wouldn't want to mislead you, because I wasn't able to find anything in the CCC to back it up. Maybe ask the priest to clarify what he meant, or get a second opinion?

[havok579257]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1645656' date='Sep 2 2008, 06:20 PM']Well, I have an opinion, but I wouldn't want to mislead you, because I wasn't able to find anything in the CCC to back it up. Maybe ask the priest to clarify what he meant, or get a second opinion?[/quote]


Here's what the priest told me. He said the man should not be ashamed if that were to happen and it is not something one needs to confess about. As long as the intent was there, then it is not a sin. He said accidents happen, escpecially when dealing with things like this and there is no wrong in an accident happening. He says God looks at your intent here and as long as the intent was in the right place, it is not a sin.


I just wanted to ask on here because before, people have said this constitutes a sin but then the priest said it didn't. So I am confused.

[Vincent Vega]

The only thing I see that's a bit questionable in that explanation is that it's possible to do things unwillingly or unknowingly and they still be sins. Not mortal sins, as willingly/knowing committing them is a prerequisite, but venial sins, yes.
I'd agree with Zig and say that I think:
No, it's not a mortal sin; it is a venial sin.
But I'm probably wrong; I'd suspect the good reverend knows more on the subject than I.
Maybe PM Fr. Cappy or Fr. Ponti and ask them?

Edited September 2, 2008 by USAirwaysIHS

[Ziggamafu]

Aye. My point, if not clearly conveyed, was that such a sin was likely venial. The choice to receive, by means of confession, a supernatural abundance of grace from the omnipotent Love-God of the universe is yours. You do not need, by confession, to be filled with supernatural empowerment to resist temptations, while simultaneously remitting some of your temporal punishments, if you don't want to.

Because you are so persistent (you sound a bit haunted by the idea of mortal sin), I see a yellow flag for scrupulosity. Relax. God loves you. You cannot sin mortally by accident or by impairment. Mortal sin is deliberate rebellion, which amounts to a choice for Hell. Venial sin is an offense against God that hurts you and quite probably others. Venial sin should be struggled against and overcome. But it should not cause fear of Hell.

[CatherineM]

I asked one of my theology professors who is a priest, and he said that such accidents aren't a sin any more than a wet dream is, but the danger comes when these kinds of accidents happen too frequently. It is an area that couples can fall into sin easily if they use it as an excuse to be able to do things routinely that aren't in line with the Church's teachings.

[havok579257]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1646258' date='Sep 3 2008, 02:00 PM']I asked one of my theology professors who is a priest, and he said that such accidents aren't a sin any more than a wet dream is, but the danger comes when these kinds of accidents happen too frequently. It is an area that couples can fall into sin easily if they use it as an excuse to be able to do things routinely that aren't in line with the Church's teachings.[/quote]


Thanks so much for helping me get a clear answer and asking another priest on this subject. I really appriciate the extra leg work you did on this question. Thanks

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1645225' date='Sep 2 2008, 08:45 AM']It would almost certainly still be a sin, though very likely a venial sin.

Any sin that is not committed with full knowledge (read: full awareness & full faculties of reason) or full consent (read: deliberation & advertence) is not mortal. Period.

Remember that to sin mortally is to deliberately reject Christ by means of violating his moral truths, thereby destroying all charity within your soul. That does not happen by accident or by weakness.

[i]Which is not to say that sins of weakness / ignorance are not serious[/i] - venial sin is indeed a serious thing; it can even destroy your life here in this world. But the difference between venial and mortal sin is that venial sin can only "weigh down" your life in the next world - not destroy it completely.

Find a good moral theology book and take advantage of it.[/quote]


I am not sure I agree with this, and I am not trying to start anything her, but I would contend a "sin of weakness" can indeed be mortal, unless you have a really tight definition of weakness.

That said in this case, I would go with venial, as this lacks intentionality, and it is likely that the man would not be culpable regardless.

[Saint Therese]

I think there would be culpability, because I tink that situation is preventable. The couple should learn to be sensitive to each other's limits.
Just my opinion.

[mommas_boy]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1645665' date='Sep 2 2008, 06:27 PM']Here's what the priest told me. He said the man should not be ashamed if that were to happen and it is not something one needs to confess about. As long as the intent was there, then it is not a sin. He said accidents happen, escpecially when dealing with things like this and there is no wrong in an accident happening. He says God looks at your intent here and as long as the intent was in the right place, it is not a sin.


I just wanted to ask on here because before, people have said this constitutes a sin but then the priest said it didn't. So I am confused.[/quote]


[quote name='CatherineM' post='1646258' date='Sep 3 2008, 02:00 PM']I asked one of my theology professors who is a priest, and he said that such accidents aren't a sin any more than a wet dream is, but the danger comes when these kinds of accidents happen too frequently. It is an area that couples can fall into sin easily if they use it as an excuse to be able to do things routinely that aren't in line with the Church's teachings.[/quote]

I concur with these points. I've heard the same said by a VERY orthodox bishop, Daniel Jenky of Peoria in Illinois.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1654773' date='Sep 13 2008, 03:33 PM']I think there would be culpability, because I tink that situation is preventable. The couple should learn to be sensitive to each other's limits.
Just my opinion.[/quote]


so you don't believe in accidents?