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Abortion Issue Again Dividing Catholic Votes


kenrockthefirst

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[quote name='Didymus' post='1659243' date='Sep 19 2008, 01:34 PM']Of course I know better.. But I'm getting pretty sick and tired of folks unecessarily stressing a document instead of the abortions at hand..

We set ourselves up to buy into the campaigns of anyone who merely says they believe life begins at conception but never do anything for the women who walk into the abortion clinic everyday once we vote them into office.

If this truly is the ONE ISSUE at hand, then why the devil aren't we demanding more from our worthless elected "pro-life" officials then allowing ourselves to be duped by their rhetoric, all the while they do next to squat for us..[/quote]

you shouldn't judge me. You have no idea what my work with the Pro-life movement entails. I'm not being duped by any rhetoric...

I'm not stressing a document, I'm stressing that ROE V. WADE made killing babies legal, and we should do everything we can to make it illegal again. I'm not saying that we will be SAVED by our ELECTED OFFICIALS on this issue. But we should vote the Pro-lifers in because they certainly won't make the situation WORSE!

It's up to us to change people's hearts about Abortion, not our government officials. But they are the ones making the laws...

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[quote name='Didymus' post='1659249' date='Sep 19 2008, 01:35 PM']well that helped the discussion.. maybe we'll do better to just regurgitate more rhetoric..[/quote]
Well, it was a rather silly statement!

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[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1659277' date='Sep 19 2008, 02:47 PM']you shouldn't judge me. You have no idea what my work with the Pro-life movement entails. I'm not being duped by any rhetoric...

I'm not stressing a document, I'm stressing that ROE V. WADE made killing babies legal, and we should do everything we can to make it illegal again. I'm not saying that we will be SAVED by our ELECTED OFFICIALS on this issue. But we should vote the Pro-lifers in because they certainly won't make the situation WORSE!

It's up to us to change people's hearts about Abortion, not our government officials. But they are the ones making the laws...[/quote]

i wasn't judging you and your work in the movement. I was judging the statement you made.

who exactly are you referring to when you say "vote the Pro-lifers in"?

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With all due respect, you shouldn't judge my statement either. Who are you to judge anything I say? Anyway, you implied that I don't give a hoot about babies just about documents. So, I'll regurgitate no further to you.

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with all due respect, this forum is open to debate, which means we can judge each others statements.

You said that [i]since[/i] Roe v Wade, abortion is THE ONE ISSUE.. Am I not allowed to judge that this is incorrect? Even if my opinion is merely that it has always been the most important issue?

You also claim that McCain and Palin will do what they can against abortion. I also disagree with that as well. Can I not judge that statement?

I never intended to upset anyone. I felt the need to comment on your original post, and when someone WRITES LIKE THIS, it makes me feel as though they are attacking me from the get go..

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also I never said anything about you not caring about babies before Roe v Wade. If that's what you feel implied, then I apologize. It was not my intent.

My intent was to point out that the genocide, as KoC, called it, began long before Roe v Wade, and that in our attempts to incite a just and moral conscience in the hearts of the voters, we shouldn't leave out those who suffered before the day the feds approved of it..

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KnightofChrist

[quote name='Didymus' post='1659363' date='Sep 19 2008, 03:01 PM']with all due respect, this forum is open to debate, which means we can judge each others statements.

You said that [i]since[/i] Roe v Wade, abortion is THE ONE ISSUE.. Am I not allowed to judge that this is incorrect? Even if my opinion is merely that it has always been the most important issue?

You also claim that McCain and Palin will do what they can against abortion. I also disagree with that as well. Can I not judge that statement?

I never intended to upset anyone. I felt the need to comment on your original post, and when someone WRITES LIKE THIS, it makes me feel as though they are attacking me from the get go..[/quote]

Life is the one issue which all others flow, without life no other issue matters. Every since Roe v Wade mass genocide has been legalized, until it is made illegal again it is the one issue that matters. Sure your 'allowed' to disagree, but in the same way your also 'allowed' to disagree that grass is green and the sky is blue. McCain vs Obama, McCain would be the prolife ticket hands down, not perfect by no means, but lets face it Obama will destroy the gains by the prolife movement over the last 8 years. McCain will not and the prolife movement will be able to grow under his leadership.

Edited by KnightofChrist
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:shutup:

Didymus, you don't want me to continue to regurgitate do you?

...

I think I've said enough. You have completely misread my statements and judged me wrong......


...by the way, thanks, KofC! You, on the other hand, read me correctly! 100%! At least my point got across with some of you, (I hope!) I thought I was clear enough, I guess I was wrong! I won't say anymore on this subject. I think I have said enough... Edited by dominicansoul
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I think so too..

and KoC doesn't exactly read you correctly, he just pretends to be infallible on these issues.

all the while no one is really listening to anyone. Thank God lives aren't actually at stake through all this... oh wait.

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[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1659378' date='Sep 19 2008, 04:43 PM']Life is the one issue which all others flow, without life no other issue matters. Every since Roe v Wade mass genocide has been legalized, until it is made illegal again it is the one issue that matters. Sure your 'allowed' to disagree, but in the same way your also 'allowed' to disagree that grass is green and the sky is blue. McCain vs Obama, McCain would be the prolife ticket hands down, not perfect by no means, but lets face it Obama will destroy the gains by the prolife movement over the last 8 years. McCain will not and the prolife movement will be able to grow under his leadership.[/quote]

1. I merely disagreed that it has been the most important issue only [i]since[/i] Roe v Wade...

2. What gains have we made in the past [b]8 years[/b]? Are not 3000-4000 women still getting abortions every day? What has happened in the last eight years to help these women? Anything?

3. McCain's platform is pro-life at least by name of course. Whether we will be able to grow under his leadership is reasonably debatable..


Oh, and could you pass a "no hard feelings" message on to D-Soul for me? I don't think she wants to talk anymore. I would figure if someone made such a grave generalization like she did in her original post ("People on this forum don't seem to understand...") that we could perhaps respond to it. I guess it is inappropriate to question statements like that.

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KnightofChrist

[quote name='Didymus' post='1659442' date='Sep 19 2008, 05:29 PM']1. I merely disagreed that it has been the most important issue only [i]since[/i] Roe v Wade...[/quote]

Before Roe v Wade or legalized abortion, infanticide was not legalized and therefor rare, the personhood of the fetus was protected by the state and abortionist charged with murder. Also before Roe v Wade/legalized abortion legalized abortion mass amounts of people did not question the personhood of the child. Roe v Wade/legalized abortion was a fundamental change in how Americans respect life, or more correctly disrespect life.

[quote name='Didymus' post='1659442' date='Sep 19 2008, 05:29 PM']2. What gains have we made in the past [b]8 years[/b]? Are not 3000-4000 women still getting abortions every day? What has happened in the last eight years to help these women? Anything?[/quote]

The two that come to mind without looking anything up is the Born Alive protection act, and Partial Birth Abortion Ban, which Obama has promised to undo if he is elected. There are others, and if you would like I will look them up.

[quote name='Didymus' post='1659442' date='Sep 19 2008, 05:29 PM']3. McCain's platform is pro-life at least by name of course. Whether we will be able to grow under his leadership is reasonably debatable..[/quote]

Debatable perhaps, but at the end of that debate over all I believe it would show that McCain would be good for the prolife movement. But there is no debate that Obama would be very very bad for the prolife movement.

[quote name='Didymus' post='1659442' date='Sep 19 2008, 05:29 PM']Oh, and could you pass a "no hard feelings" message on to D-Soul for me? I don't think she wants to talk anymore. I would figure if someone made such a grave generalization like she did in her original post ("People on this forum don't seem to understand...") that we could perhaps respond to it. I guess it is inappropriate to question statements like that.[/quote]

Hum idk but sounds as if there is a little hard feelings.... but anyway I dont think her pm is broken.

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[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1659378' date='Sep 19 2008, 03:43 PM']Life is the one issue which all others flow, without life no other issue matters. Every since Roe v Wade mass genocide has been legalized, until it is made illegal again it is the one issue that matters. Sure your 'allowed' to disagree, but in the same way your also 'allowed' to disagree that grass is green and the sky is blue. McCain vs Obama, McCain would be the prolife ticket hands down, not perfect by no means, but lets face it Obama will destroy the gains by the prolife movement over the last 8 years. McCain will not and the prolife movement will be able to grow under his leadership.[/quote]

Making abortion illegal is unenforceable. Didn't you every study Prohibition? Prohibition tried to make drinking alcohol illegal. Instead it promoted it. It could not be enforced. Speakeasies and illegal drinking were everywhere. The law was eventually repealed.

Making abortion illegal will drive it underground again. It will become like meth labs are--everywhere. The suction devices used in eastern Europe and Russia are easily obtainable. Any minimally trained health practitioner can learn to use one, get a hold of cheap antibiotics and set up shop.

In order to really prevent abortion, you would have to test all pre-menopausal women every month to identify the pregnant ones and then put them under surveillance for nine months. Aside from violating the Constitution, is this practicable ?

Abortion was never rare. It just wasn't detected and wasn't reported.

Explicit sex education and contraception are the only ways to reduce abortion. The lowest abortion rates are in Northern Europe and Scandinavia, where these policies are followed.

Regarding abstinence-only sex education, 26 states now refuse federal funds to promote this after seeing how this sort of 'education' increased illegitimate birth rates [i]and[/i] STD's. The federal government has spent 1.5 BILLION dollars in an attempt to promote this, with very little to show for it.

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[quote]Making abortion illegal is unenforceable. Didn't you every study Prohibition? Prohibition tried to make drinking alcohol illegal. Instead it promoted it. It could not be enforced. Speakeasies and illegal drinking were everywhere. The law was eventually repealed.[/quote]Fallacious analogy, unless abortion is addictive now. People circumvented alcohol and illicit drug prohibitions because they had addictions. If abortions weren't a viable option, then women would either be taking a ridiculous risk with their own lives, or would have the baby.

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