Illegal Immigration And The Mortgage Mess

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1662917' date='Sep 24 2008, 04:21 PM']Didn't Pope Benedict just put out a pastoral letter about immigration? If I'm not mistaken, he called for countries where undocumented aliens are common to treat them with dignity and humanity.

Of course, John Paul II was against capital punishment, and the US didn't follow his admonitions about that, so I imagine we won't listen to Pope Benedict's either.[/quote]

Pope Benedict XVI also called on all Catholics around the world to respect the laws of the nations they reside in. People seem to conveniently ignore that part.

And treating them with dignity and respect...this is a non-issue! OF COURSE they should be treated with dignity and respect. That doesn't mean we should give them free scholaships to state universities, provide them with foreign-language services becasue they refuse to learn English, and give them home loans that they cannnot pay back. No one is entitled to these things. They are privileges of citizenship.

They already get free emergency room services and can give birth for free in any American hospital. I'd say that's pretty darn respectful and dignified.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='picchick' post='1663005' date='Sep 24 2008, 05:20 PM']No one is telling you to do anything but realize the impact that your words have.


The term bastard means a child without a father. However, you wouldn't call fatherless children bastards because of the negative connotation associated with it.

I'm just sayin' [/quote]


That is because the word bastard became absorbed into the english lexicon of swear words, because in the old days being born out of wedlock was considered shameful and embarassing. This is not the case of "illegal alien". It's doubtful that you'll see a Hollywood movie where a girl gets angry at her boyfriend and screams "You ILLEGAL ALIEN!!" at him.

Apples and oranges.

[SpareTime]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1663059' date='Sep 24 2008, 06:59 PM']It's doubtful that you'll see a Hollywood movie where a girl gets angry at her boyfriend and screams "You ILLEGAL ALIEN!!" at him.[/quote]

[picchick]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1663044' date='Sep 24 2008, 06:38 PM']And I am just saying to you--again--that I never said "they are entirely to blame". This thread is about the illegal alien sistuation and the effect it has had on the current mortgage crisis and the impending bailout which is coming out of the pockets of every tax-paying American citizen and every legal American resident.

I don't like having to defend myself against a statement that I never made nor implied. It annoys me and most importantly, distracts from the topic. If you or anyone else wants to start a thread about how irresponsible American citizens have contributed to the mortgage crisis, you are free to do so. I choose to address this aspect of the crisis.

If it makes anyone uncomfortable or they find it boring or they don't agree, they are free to not read it. Just like I don't read threads that don't interest me.[/quote]


Um, you kinda need to read my entire post, including where I mentioned that I was not addressing you but to a whole lo of people. I was speaking generally to everybody. I know what you said and what you didn't say. But you chose to ignore that and pick and choose what to read....cafeteria style.

My gosh, Madame V. No one is saying you said anything. I even DIRECTLY said that I was not addressing anything you or your author said. I was speaking in generalities and bringing up an issue which is relevant to the topic. Forgive me for not reading your invisible rules of posting.


YOU are causing your own trouble and detracting from your own post and continuing a fight that never had to be. AGAIN....so that you SEE: I never implied or said that you are solely blaming the illegal immigrants for the crisis. I AM SORRY for the misunderstanding.
Meg

Edited September 24, 2008 by picchick

[rachael]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1663044' date='Sep 24 2008, 06:38 PM']Just like I don't read threads that don't interest me.[/quote]


Or block people who don't interest you?

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1663059' date='Sep 24 2008, 06:59 PM']became absorbed into the english lexicon of swear words, because in the old days being born out of wedlock was considered shameful and embarassing. This is not the case of "illegal alien". It's doubtful that you'll see a Hollywood movie where a girl gets angry at her boyfriend and screams "You ILLEGAL ALIEN!!" at him.

Apples and oranges.[/quote]

Thank you, I was going to respond similarly.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1663036' date='Sep 24 2008, 06:32 PM']Without a doubt, people in the homeloan business could come up with a figure, but who wants to admit to giving loans to people who are in our country illegally and therefore not entitled to said loans in the first place? Who wants to admit to that?[/quote]

The home loan industry probably does not know the figure because they probably did not even check or do due diligence to verify people's identities or status, and that goes to the heart of the problem of the industry in the past 8 years. I have read about cases where people (didn't matter if they were born here or elsewhere) took out mortgages in other people's names and stolen social security numbers. And the whole industry appeared to be working on a commission system based on the number of loans that could be refinanced. And I posted previously how much of a joke it was when I refinanced about 4 years ago. No internal inspection of the house, and all they cared about was if my pay stub showed I could make the mortgage payment and if I had enough money to cover the refinancing costs. "Back in the day", it took a few weeks to get approved for a mortgage; lately, refinancing was done in a day.

Edited September 24, 2008 by Norseman82

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1663076' date='Sep 24 2008, 07:36 PM']The home loan industry probably does not know the figure because they probably did not even check or do due diligence to verify people's identities or status, and that goes to the heart of the problem of the industry in the past 8 years. I have read about cases where people (didn't matter if they were born here or elsewhere) took out mortgages in other people's names and stolen social security numbers. And the whole industry appeared to be working on a commission system based on the number of loans that could be refinanced. And I posted previously how much of a joke it was when I refinanced about 4 years ago. No internal inspection of the house, and all they cared about was if my pay stub showed I could make the mortgage payment and if I had enough money to cover the refinancing costs. "Back in the day", it took a few weeks to get approved for a mortgage; lately, refinancing was done in a day.[/quote]

The problem if stolen identies and the havoc this has wreaked on innocent Americans is another issue exploited by illegal aliens. Hell, the fake ID of one of the 9/11 hijackers was bought for $100 by an illegal alien. Michelle Malkin has also written extensively about illegal aliens and stolen identities.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='picchick' post='1663065' date='Sep 24 2008, 07:13 PM']Um, you kinda need to read my entire post, including where I mentioned that I was not addressing you but to a whole lo of people. I was speaking generally to everybody. I know what you said and what you didn't say. But you chose to ignore that and pick and choose what to read....cafeteria style.

My gosh, Madame V. No one is saying you said anything. I even DIRECTLY said that I was not addressing anything you or your author said. I was speaking in generalities and bringing up an issue which is relevant to the topic. Forgive me for not reading your invisible rules of posting.


YOU are causing your own trouble and detracting from your own post and continuing a fight that never had to be. AGAIN....so that you SEE: I never implied or said that you are solely blaming the illegal immigrants for the crisis. I AM SORRY for the misunderstanding.
Meg[/quote]

Who was this addressed to, Meg...

[quote]Although there are several points that I agree with you on[/quote]

...which you posted immediately following a post by me (with no other posts before that). So who was the "you" you were referring to ifit wasn't me?

And who were you responding to when you QUOTED ME in your second post in this thread? If not me--whom you quoted--then pray tell, whom?

In any case, I'm not "causing my own trouble". It's you who is having a hard grasping the simple fact that this thread is not, nor was ever meant to be, about ANYTHING except the part illegal aliens have played in the current mortgage mess.

And you have gone round and round making comments about everything except the related topic. And then you accuse [u]me[/u] of "causing my own trouble".

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1663021' date='Sep 24 2008, 07:25 PM']Is there nothing that makes you angry?

Anyway, I understand that "illegal immigration" is a phrase often used, but consider this in technical terms: if they are not here legally and have not begun the proper process to immigrate legally (and many of them, after more than a decade here, don't intend to ever begin this legal process), then no way and no how are they immigrants.[/quote]

Well, yes, there are many things that make me angry, but with Michelle Malkin and many others it seems like the "angry" setting is their default. That is just the impression that I get from their writings. I tire myself out when I am angry and reading other peoples' anger is even more exhausting. And yet it seems like that is the tone used by all the commentators from all sides of the aisle. Surely they must be destroying their central nervous systems. I do not know where these people get their energy.

[Winchester]

Doesn't all this imply we are property of the state?

[picchick]

Madame V. if you wish to continue this, I will continue it over Pm's or whatever, I won't continue it here....it'll just go in circles and then your thread will really be hijacked. I know what I was saying and how I meant for it to be said. If you want to know contact me.

God Bless,
meg

Edited September 25, 2008 by picchick

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1663355' date='Sep 25 2008, 01:17 AM']Well, yes, there are many things that make me angry, but with Michelle Malkin and many others it seems like the "angry" setting is their default. That is just the impression that I get from their writings.[/quote]


Then don't read it. The End.

Heaven forbid you should have to overlook your perception of her "tone" in order to grasp her greater message.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='picchick' post='1663372' date='Sep 25 2008, 02:10 AM']Madame V. if you wish to continue this, I will continue it over Pm's or whatever, I won't continue it here....it'll just go in circles and then your thread will really be hijacked. I know what I was saying and how I meant for it to be said. If you want to know contact me.

God Bless,
meg[/quote]


No thanks.

[Maggyie]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1663438' date='Sep 25 2008, 11:11 AM']Then don't read it. The End.

Heaven forbid you should have to overlook your perception of her "tone" in order to grasp her greater message.[/quote]

For gosh sakes, no need to get touchy. I know it's important to look past perceptions to comprehend what people are saying. I am just saying that Malkin is not the greatest communicator. When you take the wrong tone a lot of people are not going to bother to make the effort to ignore it, even though they should. Then again I suspect that Malkin and others are basically preaching to a choir. Her audience already agrees with her so there is no need for her to be persuasive.

With regard to the article (lol aren't I great about staying on topic, sorry) it makes a salient point but isn't it somewhat beside the point now? I mean this kind of article is exactly what "Washington Insiders" or other members of the commentariat produce in a crisis. It is all about the Blame Game, she wants to make sure that the illegal aliens group doesn't escape without their share of the blame. Which of course is just since they did play a role didn't they? But it is kind of pointless and unproductive. The average American would like his leadership to quit trying to pin this on somebody and just [i]do something about it. [/i] But the people who shape public opinion are never long on actual solutions to problems.