Pirates Die "strangely" After Taking Iranian Ship: Radiation

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' post='1666900' date='Sep 30 2008, 11:24 AM']Of course becuase the Iranians don''t Claim to be the proper representitives of Islam. They haven't been haveeing a who can be more conservative than who contest with Saudi Arabia for 25 years now. The country isn't theocracy ruled by Shite Muslim clerics. HMMMM, I'm thinking if Vatican City did something people would be calling it Catholic Warfare.[/quote]


Precisely. Not to mention more than 10,000 documented and verified terrorist attacks committed by Muslims all around the world since September 11, 2001. And one dares to feigns surprise at the notion that there is such a thing afoot as Islamic Warfare.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' post='1666900' date='Sep 30 2008, 12:24 PM']Of course becuase the Iranians don''t Claim to be the proper representitives of Islam.[/quote]


Of course they do. They also, theologically, represent about 10% of the total Muslin population.

The question is why does MV feel it proper to lable this part of "Islamic Warfare".

[quote]They haven't been haveeing a who can be more conservative than who contest with Saudi Arabia for 25 years now.[/quote]

Iran isin't more conservative than Saudi Arabia.

Their governmental structure does have strong elements of a representatives democracy, Saudi Arabia does not. Additionally the general populace is more liberal.

[quote]The country isn't theocracy ruled by Shite Muslim clerics.[/quote]

two problems

1-The country isin't a theocracy
2-Power rests primairly with one cleric.

[quote]HMMMM, I'm thinking if Vatican City did something people would be calling it Catholic Warfare.[/quote]

If the Pope pronounced ex cathedra that x was a moral tactic of warfare, then yes, that would be a fair lable. It would not then be fair to lable it as a "Christian" tactic, but only a "Catholic" tactic

You analogy fails on that and a number of areas, but primairly because

1-A majority of all Shia' clerics have not approved these tactics
2-Even if they did it would only be proper to lable it as a Shia tactic, not an Islamic tactic
3-Not even the Iranian government has, so far as can be proved, announced this as a tactic accecptiable with Islamic Law, at which point it would be appropiate to lable it a tactic of Iran's government.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1666912' date='Sep 30 2008, 12:40 PM']Precisely. Not to mention more than 10,000 documented and verified terrorist attacks committed by Muslims all around the world since September 11, 2001.[/quote]

Let's see your documentation

[quote]And one dares to feigns surprise at the notion that there is such a thing afoot as Islamic Warfare.[/quote]

rawr!

[Lounge Daddy]

[b]Update[/b], this one from [url="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,430681,00.html"]FOX News[/url]:

[indent]The massive shipping company that controls the vessel, the Islamic Republic of Iran Shipping Line (IRISL), was recently designated by the U.S. Department of the Treasury over nuclear proliferation concerns. IRISL, which is accused of falsifying documents to facilitate the shipment of weapons and chemicals for use in Iran's missile program, is blocked from moving money through U.S. banks as well as from carrying food and medical supplies as part of U.S. trade sanctions against Iran.

"IRISL's actions are part of a broader pattern of deception and fabrication that Iran uses to advance its nuclear and missile programs," said Stuart Levey, Undersecretary of the Treasury for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence.

...

Chemical experts say the reports sound inconsistent with chemical poisoning, but may reflect the effects of exposure to radiation.

"It's baffling," said Jonathan Tucker, a senior fellow at the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies. "I'm not aware of any chemical agent that produces loss of hair within a few days. That's more suggestive of high levels of radioactive waste."

Tucker, a chemical and biological weapons expert, said that Chinese companies have been implicated in selling Iran so-called dual-use chemicals, legal ingredients that can be processed into chemical weapons.

...

Chemical experts say the reports sound inconsistent with chemical poisoning, but may reflect the effects of exposure to radiation.

"It's baffling," said Jonathan Tucker, a senior fellow at the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies. "I'm not aware of any chemical agent that produces loss of hair within a few days. That's more suggestive of high levels of radioactive waste."

Tucker, a chemical and biological weapons expert, said that Chinese companies have been implicated in selling Iran so-called dual-use chemicals, legal ingredients that can be processed into chemical weapons.[/indent]

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1667097' date='Sep 30 2008, 05:01 PM']Of course they do. They also, theologically, represent about 10% of the total Muslin population. [color="#FF0000"] Ah butthey are the legitiment successors to Mohamed, so dispite the fact that he was no prophet, they are the only ones who really can claim to be Moslem.[/color]

The question is why does MV feel it proper to lable this part of "Islamic Warfare".



Iran isin't more conservative than Saudi Arabia.[color="#FF0000"] I didn't say thatthey were I said for that the last 25 years they had been having a conflict over just that. There have been numerous scholarly articles on the subject.[/color]

Their governmental structure does have strong elements of a representatives democracy, Saudi Arabia does not. Additionally the general populace is more liberal. [color="#FF0000"] You assume that liberal democracies are inherintly more liberal than Monarchies, which is not a valid position. [/color]



two problems

1-The country isin't a theocracy[color="#FF0000"]Whole heartedly disagreed[/color]
2-Power rests primairly with one cleric.[color="#FF0000"] How is this a problem? Sounds pretty analgous to Vatican city to me.[/color]



If the Pope pronounced ex cathedra that x was a moral tactic of warfare, then yes, that would be a fair lable. It would not then be fair to lable it as a "Christian" tactic, but only a "Catholic" tactic.
[color="#FF0000"]No. You obviously understand nothing about Church structure, and little about Government in general. If a Papal ship was carriying weapons of mass destruction, it would be attributed to Catholic warfare and it would be a fair charge[/color]

You analogy fails on that and a number of areas, but primairly because

1-A majority of all Shia' clerics have not approved these tactics[color="#FF0000"]Don't need to, see above.[/color]
2-Even if they did it would only be proper to lable it as a Shia tactic, not an Islamic tactic[color="#FF0000"] A false distinction. The Shia' are Islamic and even the sunni do not see the distinction inthe same way as Christians do. and if you know about Islam You KNOW thats the case. [/color]
3-Not even the Iranian government has, so far as can be proved, announced this as a tactic accecptiable with Islamic Law, at which point it would be appropiate to lable it a tactic of Iran's government. [color="#FF0000"]The government of Iran, and the ruling clerics have not said using weapons of mass destruction is an acceptable tactic. Funny they sure built a lot of them for not thinking that.[/color][/quote]

[Hassan]

[quote]Ah butthey are the legitiment successors to Mohamed[/quote]


lol

Let's see you justify this.

[quote]so dispite the fact that he was no prophet, they are the only ones who really can claim to be Moslem[/quote]

Again, I would just love to see you prove this.

[quote]I didn't say thatthey were I said for that the last 25 years they had been having a conflict over just that.[/quote]

Over who can be more conservative?

[quote]There have been numerous scholarly articles on the subject.[/quote]


Cite them and I will read them

[quote]You assume that liberal democracies are inherintly more liberal than Monarchies, which is not a valid position.[/quote]

You are right.

[quote]Whole heartedly disagreed[/quote]



Iran is a theocratic republic, not a pure theocracy

[Hassan]

[quote]How is this a problem? Sounds pretty analgous to Vatican city to me.[/quote]

The problem was your claim, makeing Cleric plural.

[quote]No. You obviously understand nothing about Church structure, and little about Government in general.[/quote]

be specific

[quote]If a Papal ship was carriying weapons of mass destruction, it would be attributed to Catholic warfare and it would be a fair charge[/quote]


No, this is a poor analogy to begain with as Iran's government does not hold the same place in Islam as the Papacy is in Catholicism.



[quote]Don't need to, see above[/quote]

You made a, to be generous, dubious claim with no supporting evidence.

[quote]A false distinction. The Shia' are Islamic and even the sunni do not see the distinction inthe same way as Christians do. and if you know about Islam You KNOW thats the case.[/quote]

Why don't you set me straight?

[quote]The government of Iran, and the ruling clerics have not said using weapons of mass destruction is an acceptable tactic. Funny they sure built a lot of them for not thinking that.[/quote]

I'm sure they have used them in the past, that does not help you thesis.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1667281' date='Sep 30 2008, 10:22 PM']Chemical experts say the reports sound inconsistent with chemical poisoning, but may reflect the effects of exposure to radiation.

"It's baffling," said Jonathan Tucker, a senior fellow at the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies. "I'm not aware of any chemical agent that produces loss of hair within a few days. That's more suggestive of high levels of radioactive waste."

Tucker, a chemical and biological weapons expert, said that Chinese companies have been implicated in selling Iran so-called dual-use chemicals, legal ingredients that can be processed into chemical weapons.[/indent][/quote]


Like I said, sounds like a new weapon of Islamic Warfare. And this in the hands of a madman who has stated that Israel should be wiped off the map and the Jews driven into the sea.

Plus, this isn't the first time China has been caught funding Islamic Warfare for their own financial gain: look at Sudan.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1667323' date='Sep 30 2008, 11:04 PM']Like I said, sounds like a new weapon of Islamic Warfare. And this in the hands of a madman who has stated that Israel should be wiped off the map and the Jews driven into the sea.

Plus, this isn't the first time China has been caught funding Islamic Warfare for their own financial gain: look at Sudan.[/quote]

You understand Iran's President has little legal power right?

[Mercy me]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1667097' date='Sep 30 2008, 05:01 PM']1-The country isin't a theocracy
2-Power rests primairly with one cleric.[/quote]

Ok,then it is an oligarchy consisting exclusively of Islamic leaders.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Mercy me' post='1667855' date='Oct 1 2008, 05:44 PM']Ok,then it is an oligarchy consisting exclusively of Islamic leaders.[/quote]


Not all of the legislature is Muslim.

Although I think "oligarchy" is much close to the point, thank you.