AccountDeleted Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 This topic has probably been discussed before - and perhaps this should be posted in another section but let's give it a try here. The commandment says "Thou shalt not kill." and this is a great argument against abortion. But how does one use this argument to someone who is in the military, who is told that they might have to kill? If it's ok in one case, why not another (for them)? Any help with this discussion would be appreciated. I am not great at arguing the fine points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I come from a military family. My father was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross in WWII for sinking a German u-boat that was firing on a troop transport that my dad's squadron was escorting. He said they bombed it and forced it to the surface. They were given the opportunity to surrender, but they turned their surface guns on the transport and my dad's plane. He said he was close enough to see the men's faces when he dropped the bomb that sent them to their deaths. I asked him if he regretted killing those men, and he said he regretted it was necessary. I can't visualize anything that would make an abortion necessary. My mother was told to abort me or she would die in childbirth. She just had her 86th birthday, so the doctors were wrong. My last pregnancy made me very ill. I eventually had a miscarriage, but at no time did I consider having an abortion to preserve my health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1666836' date='Sep 30 2008, 10:16 AM']I come from a military family. My father was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross in WWII for sinking a German u-boat that was firing on a troop transport that my dad's squadron was escorting. He said they bombed it and forced it to the surface. They were given the opportunity to surrender, but they turned their surface guns on the transport and my dad's plane. He said he was close enough to see the men's faces when he dropped the bomb that sent them to their deaths. I asked him if he regretted killing those men, and he said he regretted it was necessary. I can't visualize anything that would make an abortion necessary. My mother was told to abort me or she would die in childbirth. She just had her 86th birthday, so the doctors were wrong. My last pregnancy made me very ill. I eventually had a miscarriage, but at no time did I consider having an abortion to preserve my health.[/quote] But the question is, what happens when the person doing the killing does not offer surrender and strikes first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 [quote name='havok579257' post='1666871' date='Sep 30 2008, 10:32 AM']But the question is, what happens when the person doing the killing does not offer surrender and strikes first.[/quote] I don't believe in preemptive strikes. If an opponent can be given the opportunity to surrender, you should offer, and accept. There are times when surrender isn't an option, or can't be offered due to the engagement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 "Thou shalt not kill" is actually a popular but inaccurate translation. The commandment actually means "thou shalt not [b]murder[/b]." Various categories of killing such as death in wartime, death imposed by the state, self-defense against an aggressor obviously do not qualify as murder and are therefore not against the commandment. (Although the death penalty is not murder, it is no longer considered an appropriate response on the part of most states) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Knight Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 [quote name='nunsense' post='1666819' date='Sep 30 2008, 09:10 AM']This topic has probably been discussed before - and perhaps this should be posted in another section but let's give it a try here. The commandment says "Thou shalt not kill." and this is a great argument against abortion. But how does one use this argument to someone who is in the military, who is told that they might have to kill? If it's ok in one case, why not another (for them)? Any help with this discussion would be appreciated. I am not great at arguing the fine points.[/quote] Actually according to the original text, its Murder, not kill, but theres a fine line between killing and murdering, especially when ya compare Abortion to Military Service. Very Big difference. The Catechism of the Catholic Church page [b]603 2263-2274 [/b] Basically if one has no choice but to take another person's life in combat to protect the overall community/ society it is not murder, but rather defense. Abortion on the otherhand is clearly murder it takes the life of the innocent, and offers no chance for life, while Military Service does, with Self Defense. When soldiers' are placed in a situtation where its "Them or You" then the obligation to defend your own life and other's begins, even if you have to take out the opposition by lethal force. soldier's do not take lives because they want too, but because if its comes down to it, they have too, now if a soldier or citizen has premediation, or intentionally takes someone's life for no good reason, or just for the shake of it, or out of anger, or no legit reason, as in the threat isn't lethal, then its murder. I'll post more later. Peace be with You. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted October 2, 2008 Author Share Posted October 2, 2008 [quote name='White Knight' post='1667962' date='Oct 1 2008, 10:00 PM']Actually according to the original text, its Murder, not kill, but theres a fine line between killing and murdering, especially when ya compare Abortion to Military Service. Very Big difference. The Catechism of the Catholic Church page [b]603 2263-2274 [/b] Basically if one has no choice but to take another person's life in combat to protect the overall community/ society it is not murder, but rather defense. Abortion on the otherhand is clearly murder it takes the life of the innocent, and offers no chance for life, while Military Service does, with Self Defense. When soldiers' are placed in a situtation where its "Them or You" then the obligation to defend your own life and other's begins, even if you have to take out the opposition by lethal force. soldier's do not take lives because they want too, but because if its comes down to it, they have too, now if a soldier or citizen has premediation, or intentionally takes someone's life for no good reason, or just for the shake of it, or out of anger, or no legit reason, as in the threat isn't lethal, then its murder. I'll post more later. Peace be with You.[/quote] Thank you - after you posted this, I did some more research online and found lots of information about the translation of the words used, and it makes a lot more sense to me now. Thanks to everyone for their help with this. Something as simple as the way a word is translated can make all the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Knight Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 [quote name='nunsense' post='1667988' date='Oct 1 2008, 09:59 PM']Thank you - after you posted this, I did some more research online and found lots of information about the translation of the words used, and it makes a lot more sense to me now. Thanks to everyone for their help with this. Something as simple as the way a word is translated can make all the difference.[/quote] You are very Welcome friend, glad this helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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