Abortion War

[Aloysius]

it'd be quite a messy war... and pretty much anyone and everyone who thinks there should be a war is not actually qualified to do anything in that war. I wouldn't blame the average german citizen during the nazi period for just trying to keep themselves and their friends alive and wait out the madness... though any who tried to assassinate hitler (or if any had organized and tried to liberate a concentration camp) are obviously heroes, the average person can't really be expected to become a soldier even when mass murder is occuring.

are people who kill abortion doctors heroes? if it saves lives, then yes they are (the abortion doctor is a mass murderer)... but it doesn't tend to save too many lives in actuality. an actual campaign of vandalism to block abortions from being able to take place would be a great thing in my opinion (destroying "medical" equipment, stealing funds from planned parenthood facilities, destroying the facilities)... taking lives could only be justified if it were the only way to save the babies; and the fact is destorying the equipment would be just as effective.

now of course, every single abortion doctor deserves the death penalty and a good merciful state could give them an undeserved life imprisonment instead if it existed (mitigating factors + repentance for their crime might reduce time served so long as they were not a danger to start killing babies again)... but a vigilante-imposed death penalty is too prone to revenge to be acceptable.... violence from the people could only be in the form of prevention or revolution

[Majella]

Killing in order to stop the killing?

[Akalyte]

I'd love to start an abortion war. Of course we cant do that though with out the churches approval which i highly doubt we'll ever get.

[Didymus]

[quote name='Majella' post='1671359' date='Oct 6 2008, 04:12 AM']Killing in order to stop the killing?[/quote]

My thoughts exactly.. I've never been so ashamed to be a phatmasser..

yall are pro-life for the wrong reasons..

[rkwright]

[quote name='Didymus' post='1671381' date='Oct 6 2008, 07:58 AM']My thoughts exactly.. I've never been so ashamed to be a phatmasser..

yall are pro-life for the wrong reasons..[/quote]

What about self-defense? Killing to stop someone from killing?

It seems to me that if you're going to be on that side, then you would also have to say that you wouldn't do something to someone about to kill your family, no?

[goldenchild17]

Exactly. anyone who is against all killing whatsoever, doesn't understand the meaning of pro-life.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='Didymus' post='1671381' date='Oct 6 2008, 09:58 AM']My thoughts exactly.. I've never been so ashamed to be a phatmasser..[/quote]
... says the one with IRA symbolism in his avatar....

[Didymus]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1671444' date='Oct 6 2008, 11:52 AM']... says the one with IRA symbolism in his avatar....[/quote]

lol, true, but I'm not intending to imply here a desire to kill folks to solve all problems. I may be proud of my heritage, but not it's violent history..

Edited October 6, 2008 by Didymus

[Didymus]

[quote name='rkwright' post='1671401' date='Oct 6 2008, 10:11 AM']What about self-defense? Killing to stop someone from killing?

It seems to me that if you're going to be on that side, then you would also have to say that you wouldn't do something to someone about to kill your family, no?[/quote]

not true. An abortion war would not be [i]self[/i]-defense.

besides, how many confused and helpless women would die unnecessarily as a result of this war, especially if there are means available to save her [i]and[/i] her child?

[Didymus]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1671434' date='Oct 6 2008, 11:38 AM']Exactly. anyone who is against all killing whatsoever, doesn't understand the meaning of pro-life.[/quote]

i agree completely. I am not against all killing, but I am totally against any idea of using violence to end the abortion in our culture..

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1670494' date='Oct 4 2008, 10:17 PM']So if you were in 1943 Germany that would be your advice?

Try to instigate a cultural paradigm shift?

I mean so many here love to compare abortion to the holocaust.[/quote]

How many Nazis did Karol Wojtyla and Joseph Ratzinger kill?

Edited October 6, 2008 by LouisvilleFan

[LouisvilleFan]

Edited October 6, 2008 by LouisvilleFan

[rkwright]

[quote name='Didymus' post='1671451' date='Oct 6 2008, 10:58 AM']not true. An abortion war would not be [i]self[/i]-defense.

besides, how many confused and helpless women would die unnecessarily as a result of this war, especially if there are means available to save her [i]and[/i] her child?[/quote]

Sorry, I meant self-defense in the context of defense of a third person.

So the example still stands. Would you let someone come into your house and stand by and watch them kill your family? It seems that to be consistent the answer is yes?

[Didymus]

[quote name='rkwright' post='1671485' date='Oct 6 2008, 12:27 PM']Sorry, I meant self-defense in the context of defense of a third person.

So the example still stands. Would you let someone come into your house and stand by and watch them kill your family? It seems that to be consistent the answer is yes?[/quote]

Of course not. But a war to defend the child in the womb is a different scenario. When the goal is to save the life of one human being that is within the womb of another human being, it makes no sense to risk the life of the latter to save the former, especially if other means are available to do so..

[mommas_boy]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1670482' date='Oct 4 2008, 08:53 PM']if the standard for war is "more likly than not" then maybe it's not here. but why does that have to be the standard> if the halocuase were occuring, or people being killed at the rate of a million per year as with abortion, then you know there'd be a war as long as the liklihood were reasonable, heck, if it were merely plausible.
with the abortion war, i'd think there'd be even a reasonable liklihood of success at least.[/quote]

I believe that the likelihood of success for a civil war over abortion (or for any reason, for that matter) in this day in age is very small. I disagree with you on this point. The reason is that the level of technology currently used in the military is far too high for a state-run militia to have any hope of overthrowing a government sponsored military. The government would have tanks and jets and nukes and stuff. We would have small arms. This is scary for many reasons: people can no longer overthrow an unjust government.

This brings us to the point of fractioning the military -- we would have a military for and a military against, both with their own equipment that they happen to have available. But, in a particular base, there are likely people for and against. It's not a regional thing like it was during our last civil war where the enemy lines were clearly defined.

Another point -- any effort to organize such a movement would qualify as sedition/treason. Thus, organizing the movement will require a good deal of subterfuge. With over 1,000,000 people on the terrorist watch list, as well as the technological capability to track people who are even suspected of plotting against the US, such a movement would be difficult to organize, at best, without being uncovered before the attack was orchestrated.

For all of these reasons, I believe that starting a civil war over abortion, though justified for other reasons, is not justified for the reason of being unlikely at being successful. Anything that is big enough to be successful would most likely draw the attention of authorities before anything could be done.