Jump to content
An Old School Catholic Message Board

Sharia Law In The Uk


mortify

Recommended Posts

Archaeology cat

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1673308' date='Oct 9 2008, 03:46 PM']I think the thing that riles people most is that this simply continues and fosters the seperatism that already exists. When you move to a foreign country, you accept [u]their[/u] way of life, and that includes their legal system. If you don't like it, don't move there. This will not foster peace, but simply further divide the nation.[/quote]
:yes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Hassan' post='1673091' date='Oct 8 2008, 10:23 PM']I'd prefer to have only one legal system. If they are going to allow it for Jews, however, it is absurd to get up in arms if the Muslims ask for the same right.[/quote]

I don't feel it's absurd because Muslims and Jews aren't the same. The radical and violent elements in Islam are very real, and especially in Britain. I'm amazed that a country that had horrific bus bombings would permit such a thing to take place, I suppose the mayors of the respective cities that are permitting the shariah courts are getting something out of it. I personally feel this is just the beginning.

[quote]A legal system will not, in itself, cause the Muslim communities to be isolated. If Muslims continue to feel like second class citizens and rejected this will not help things.[/quote]

It will further prevent assimilation, which seems to be the only way to counter the radical elements in the community.

[quote]The Economist recently ran an interesting article on the upsurge of far right politics in Europe. Europe is seeing a resurgence of anti-semitism and anti-Muslim bigotry.[/quote]

I can understand the rise of nationalistic elements in Europe seeing that European countries are being overrun with immigrants and are being torn apart via legal loopholes. Personally though, I don't find abolishing Shariah courts to be an example of "anti-Muslim bigotry."

[quote]I suspect that things will get much worse before they get better. The important thing is to approach the problem rationally rather than following the Robert Spencer path of bigotry, paranoia, and blatant stupidity.[/quote]

I agree that it will get worse and that sound thinking is required. Considering the things I have personally heard I think reasonable caution and suspicion is called for.
[quote]Muslims have their respective responsibilities as well,[/quote]

Absolutely. If Muslims took the responsibility of removing these radical elements from their communities the problem wouldn't be as bad. Unfortunately, it seems many quietly sympathize with the radical element.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Madame Vengier

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1673308' date='Oct 9 2008, 09:46 AM']I think the thing that riles people most is that this simply continues and fosters the seperatism that already exists. When you move to a foreign country, you accept [u]their[/u] way of life, and that includes their legal system. If you don't like it, don't move there. This will not foster peace, but simply further divide the nation.[/quote]


Exactly.

But the issue is a 2-parter. That's the first part. The second part is that Sharia in particular is not a system that is based on fairness, equality and human rights. There are numerous mandates and rules and laws that favor certain people and are against certain others. Frankly, it would shock most westerners, because most westerners have no concept (or at least, very little) of any type of legal system beyond the one that democracy is based upon. A westerner has no idea what it would be like to be a female subject to Sharia. The fact that the UK has basically handed over the human rights and freedoms of its Muslim citizens to the oppressive rule of Sharia is shocking. Just shocking. I myself am not able to comprehend how and why this happened.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Madame Vengier

[quote name='mortify' post='1673464' date='Oct 9 2008, 02:49 PM']I don't feel it's absurd because Muslims and Jews aren't the same. The radical and violent elements in Islam are very real, and especially in Britain.[/quote]

Just curious as to why you said "especially Britain". As bad as things are in Britain, it's actually MUCH worse in other parts of the world where Islam dominates. Sudan, for example, is a worst case scenario. It's inhuman what has been going on in Darfur (and continues, while the world ignores the elephant in the room as usual) in the name of Islam--unthinkable atrocities ordered by the Islamic government of Sudan and carried out by the Islamic militia, the Janjaweed ("devil on a horse"). All the while great numbers of people in the West are consoling themselves that these are only "a tiny minority" of radicals and we've nothing to fear. But they say that about every single oppressive and tyranical Islamic regime in the world. I have to wonder how many so-called radicals it takes in order to constitute a real and present danger.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Madame Vengier

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1672954' date='Oct 8 2008, 07:36 PM']No, some of us just don't hate them.[/quote]


Wondering why you wrote "them" when I never said anything about a "them". I referred to Islam and Islamic culture.

Hmmm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Hassan' post='1673304' date='Oct 9 2008, 10:43 AM']the problem is that there is such much pooertunity for abuse and further insulating the Muslim communities in GB.[/quote]
I'm sorry.

This is a serious issue and I shouldn't point it out.

But... man, that's one of the best typos ever.

:lol_pound:

:love:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1673533' date='Oct 9 2008, 04:58 PM']Just curious as to why you said "especially Britain".[/quote]

Because the original article was about Britain and the radical element is evident in that country.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1673535' date='Oct 9 2008, 06:00 PM']Wondering why you wrote "them" when I never said anything about a "them". I referred to Islam and Islamic culture.

Hmmm.[/quote]

yeah, you never say anything raceist/bigoted about Muslims :detective:

Do I really need to quote you?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='mortify' post='1673464' date='Oct 9 2008, 03:49 PM']I don't feel it's absurd because Muslims and Jews aren't the same. The radical and violent elements in Islam are very real, and especially in Britain.[/quote]

There are radical and violent elemtens in Judaism (yes, even to the present day and recent past) both Jewish Scripture and movements in Judaism. I have never been to the UK however I would assume that issues the Sharia' courts deal with are fairly narrow.

[quote]I'm amazed that a country that had horrific bus bombings would permit such a thing to take place, I suppose the mayors of the respective cities that are permitting the shariah courts are getting something out of it. I personally feel this is just the beginning.[/quote]

:unsure:



[quote]It will further prevent assimilation, which seems to be the only way to counter the radical elements in the community.[/quote]

Correct.



[quote]I can understand the rise of nationalistic elements in Europe seeing that European countries are being overrun with immigrants and are being torn apart via legal loopholes. Personally though, I don't find abolishing Shariah courts to be an example of "anti-Muslim bigotry."[/quote]

I'm talking about all over Europe not just the UK, and it has nothing to do with the courts, I'm talking about public oppinion



[quote]I agree that it will get worse and that sound thinking is required. Considering the things I have personally heard I think reasonable caution and suspicion is called for.[/quote]

Perhapse.


[quote]Absolutely. If Muslims took the responsibility of removing these radical elements from their communities the problem wouldn't be as bad. Unfortunately, it seems many quietly sympathize with the radical element.[/quote]

Many do it is not as simple as you seem to imply here though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Hassan' post='1673680' date='Oct 9 2008, 08:59 PM']There are radical and violent elemtens in Judaism (yes, even to the present day and recent past) both Jewish Scripture and movements in Judaism. I have never been to the UK however I would assume that issues the Sharia' courts deal with are fairly narrow.[/quote]

I'm sure there are extreme Jews, such were the kind that killed Jesus. But really Hassan, you expect me to be more worried about Jews than Muslims? They can keep their hardcore views as long as they don't threaten the existence of people who disagree with them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='mortify' post='1673688' date='Oct 9 2008, 10:03 PM']I'm sure there are extreme Jews, such were the kind that killed Jesus. But really Hassan, you expect me to be more worried about Jews than Muslims? They can keep their hardcore views as long as they don't threaten the existence of people who disagree with them.[/quote]


Israeli Settlers?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Hassan' post='1673690' date='Oct 9 2008, 09:05 PM']Israeli Settlers?[/quote]

I don't know enough to make a solid judgment on this. I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon that supports zionism but on the other hand do settlements into the Palestinian territory justify suicide bombing? Does American support for an Israeli state justify the targeting of civilian Westerners?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='mortify' post='1673695' date='Oct 9 2008, 10:08 PM']I don't know enough to make a solid judgment on this. I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon that supports zionism but on the other hand do settlements into the Palestinian territory justify suicide bombing? Does American support for an Israeli state justify the targeting of civilian Westerners?[/quote]


It's not just property.

[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7451691.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7451691.stm[/url]

[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7563313.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7563313.stm[/url]

There have been numerous Jewish Based Terrorist groups, many claiming the be acting on religious imperatives. However to rducse Jewish based terrorism to the Jewish religion soley is as rediculious as reducing Palistinian violence to Islamic imperatives.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Madame Vengier

[quote name='mortify' post='1673695' date='Oct 9 2008, 10:08 PM']I don't know enough to make a solid judgment on this. I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon that supports zionism but on the other hand do settlements into the Palestinian territory justify suicide bombing? Does American support for an Israeli state justify the targeting of civilian Westerners?[/quote]


Of course not. But "justification" matters not with the radical Islamists. If it wasn't the Palestinian issue, it would be something else. Islam was born of wars against Jews in Christians who were living in the Medina and Mecca area at the time Mohammed had his "revelation". Mohamed hiimself led numerous battles against Jewish tribes in order to fund his religion, to gain land and to gain followers. He robbed them of their land, property and their women.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Hassan' post='1673709' date='Oct 9 2008, 09:13 PM']It's not just property.

[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7451691.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7451691.stm[/url]

[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7563313.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7563313.stm[/url]

There have been numerous Jewish Based Terrorist groups, many claiming the be acting on religious imperatives. However to rducse Jewish based terrorism to the Jewish religion soley is as rediculious as reducing Palistinian violence to Islamic imperatives.[/quote]

Originally I should have asked how Israeli settlements in the Middle east affect Britain but it would be besides the point. Again, I can't comment on what I know next to nothing about. The Israeli-Palestine issue is a complex one, however does it justify terrorism, especially terrorism against Western civilians? I'd say no. Personally I think this whole issue is largely a front for evil activities.

Maybe it's just me, but I find radical Islam to be more threatening.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...