Obama Is In Fact A Socialist

[KnightofChrist]

The LA Times, MSNBC, NY Times, and Human Events are well establish news outlets. The sources via Archive.org do just that, archive factual data from the Socialist party Obama was a member of, the same is similarly true for the Chicago DSA website, being that the New party was a wing of the DSA. The Progressive Populist is simply a socialist news outlet reporting on socialist events.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1672942' date='Oct 8 2008, 06:24 PM']The LA Times, MSNBC, NY Times, and Human Events are well establish news outlets. The sources via Archive.org do just that, archive factual data from the Socialist party Obama was a member of, the same is similarly true for the Chicago DSA website, being that the New party was a wing of the DSA. The Progressive Populist is simply a socialist news outlet reporting on socialist events.[/quote]
The first three have nothing to do with Obama being a socialist. The Human Events article is about the endorsement. And an archived webpage still isn't proof of anything, as I pointed out that anyone in the world can make a webpage, so that doesn't prove anything.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1672946' date='Oct 8 2008, 08:27 PM']The first three have nothing to do with Obama being a socialist. The Human Events article is about the endorsement. And an archived webpage still isn't proof of anything, as I pointed out that anyone in the world can make a webpage, so that doesn't prove anything.[/quote]

These achieved websites would mean something to you f the tables where turned and this was Palin or McCain we all know how you would be debating this. I mean come on this is much stronger than your Palin's hero was the founder of the Alaska Independence party which makes her part of that group argument, or your she made a video for that group which makes her part of that group argument.

If you had similar sources that I provided, you would argue as I have.

[KnightofChrist]

To be more clear if you had archived data from the Alaska Independence party website that Palin was a member of their group you would argue as I have about the archived data from the Socialist New Party which Obama was a member.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1672953' date='Oct 8 2008, 06:35 PM']These achieved websites would mean something to you f the tables where turned and this was Palin or McCain we all know how you would be debating this. I mean come on this is much stronger than your Palin's hero was the founder of the Alaska Independence party which makes her part of that group argument, or your she made a video for that group which makes her part of that group argument.

If you had similar sources that I provided, you would argue as I have.[/quote]
Oh, sorry. I wasn't aware that actual video of her praising the group was not real evidence and that an obscure web page that was archived from God knows where was actually better evidence. My bad.

If you are going to "call me out" about her video support of them not actually meaning she supports them, then where do you come off saying that because Obama attended Rev. Wright's Church means he supports everything the man says?

Edited October 9, 2008 by fidei defensor

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1672955' date='Oct 8 2008, 06:38 PM']To be more clear if you had archived data from the Alaska Independence party website that Palin was a member of their group you would argue as I have about the archived data from the Socialist New Party which Obama was a member.[/quote]
No, actually, unlike you, I don't place my trust in random websites. Besides, her support of them speaks for itself. I wouldn't need to make up "evidence."

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1672959' date='Oct 8 2008, 08:40 PM']No, actually, unlike you, I don't place my trust in random websites. Besides, her support of them speaks for itself. I wouldn't need to make up "evidence."[/quote]

Sure buddy, if you had archived documention from the AIP you would sit on it, sure. Moving on here is another guy who has done his homework on the Socialist Obama.

[url="http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/10/07/obama-is-hiding-a-radical-past/"]Obama is Hiding a Radical Past![/url]
By Matthew Weaver


Did you know that Barack Obama was affiliated with a leading national socialist party? Barack Obama didn’t include in his 2008 resume that he entered politics in the mid-1990s endorsed by Chicago’s leading socialists. This just keeps getting better and better. Barack Obama was an active participant in the 1990s, and a direct political beneficiary, of the Chicago New Party and, importantly, the Chicago DSA, a group of socialists affiliated with the Democratic Socialists of America.

[indent]1. Barack Obama attended and participated in meetings of the Chicago New Party and the Chicago DSA, the local affiliate of the Democratic Socialists of America.
2. Barack Obama sought the endorsement of the Chicago DSA which required rigorous scrutiny by the party’s Political Committee as well as Mr. Obama’s signature on a contract promising “a visible and active relationship with the NP.”
3. Barack Obama actively used the endorsement from the Chicago DSA.
4. Barack Obama won his DSA-endorsed and -backed campaign to secure his seat in the Illinois State Senate.
5. Barack Obama continued his involvement with the Chicago DSA — including directly asking the group to join “his task forces on Voter Education and Voter Registration” — and received their endorsements in subsequent campaigns.[/indent]

Obama’s participation in and endorsement from the Chicago New Party and Chicago DSA, the local affiliate of the Democratic Socialists of America (which is the U.S. affiliate of the Socialist International) is quite clear:

[indent]1. According to the write-up on the July 1995 meeting of Chicago DSA and New Party membership, Barack Obama was one of about 50 people attending out of their then-300 member local group. Other documents below will demonstrate Barack Obama attended and participated in subsequent meetings.
2. The New Party rigorously evaluated its candidate endorsements and claimed “a winning ratio of 77 of 110 elections.” This was no passive endorsement.

Candidates must be approved via a NP political committee. Once approved, candidates must sign a contract with the NP. The contract mandates that they must have a visible and active relationship with the NP.—New Ground

3. Candidate Barack Obama participated as a panelist at the DSA-sponsored Town Meeting on February 25, 1996, entitled “Employment and Survival in Urban America”. As reported in New Ground,

Barack Obama observed that Martin Luther King’s March on Washington in the 1960s wasn’t simply about civil rights but demanded jobs as well. Now the issue is again coming to the front, but he wished the issue was on the Democratic agenda not just on Buchanan’s.

One of the themes that has emerged in Barack Obama’s campaign is “what does it take to create productive communities”, not just consumptive communities. It is an issue that joins some of the best instincts of the conservatives with the better instincts of the left. He felt the state government has three constructive roles to play.

The first is “human capital development”. By this he meant public education, welfare reform, and a “workforce preparation strategy”. Public education requires equality in funding. It’s not that money is the only solution to public education’s problems but it’s a start toward a solution. The current proposals for welfare reform are intended to eliminate welfare but it’s also true that the status quo is not tenable. A true welfare system would provide for medical care, child care and job training. While Barack Obama did not use this term, it sounded very much like the “social wage” approach used by many social democratic labor parties. By “workforce preparation strategy”, Barack Obama simply meant a coordinated, purposeful program of job training instead of the ad hoc, fragmented approach used by the State of Illinois today.

The state government can also play a role in redistribution, the allocation of wages and jobs. As Barack Obama noted, when someone gets paid $10 million to eliminate 4,000 jobs, the voters in his district know this is an issue of power not economics. The government can use as tools labor law reform, public works and contracts.

4. Obama subsequently secured his endorsement from the Chicago DSA
The local Democratic Socialists of America affiliate issued their Chicago DSA Endorsements in the March 19th Primary Election:

Barack Obama is running to gain the Democratic ballot line for Illinois Senate 13th District. The 13th District is Alice Palmer’s old district, encompassing parts of Hyde Park and South Shore.

Mr. Obama graduated from Columbia University and promptly went into community organizing for the Developing Communities Project in Roseland and Altgeld Gardens on the far south side of Chicago. He went on to Harvard University, where he was editor of the Harvard Law Review. He graduated with a law degree. In 1992, he was Director of Illinois Project Vote, a voter registration campaign that made Carol Moseley Braun’s election to the U.S. Senate much easier than it would have been. At present, he practices law in Judson Miner’s law firm and is President of the board of the Annenberg Challenge Grant which is distributing some $50 million in grants to public school reform efforts.

What best characterizes Barack Obama is a quote from an article in Illinois Issues, a retrospective look at his experience as a community organizer while he was completing his degree at Harvard:

“… community organizations and organizers are hampered by their own dogmas about the style and substance of organizing. Most practice … a ‘consumer advocacy’ approach, with a focus on wrestling services and resources from outside powers that be. Few are thinking of harnessing the internal productive capacities, both in terms of money and people, that already exist in communities.” (Illinois issues, September, 1988)

Luckily, Mr. Obama does not have any opposition in the primary. His opponents have all dropped out or were ruled off the ballot.

5. Barack Obama Continued Attending Membership Meetings of the Chicago DSA New Party
Obama attended membership meeting on April 11, 1996 where he expressed his gratitude for their support. The report shared that “Barack Obama, victor in the 13th State Senate District, encouraged NPers to join in his task forces on Voter Education and Voter Registration.”
6. Obama won his election with the help of the Chicago DSA’s New Party.
7. Chicago DSA notes in 1998 that Barack Obama eulogized Saul Mendelson, co-founder of the Debs Dinner.
8. In the fall of 1998, Chicago DSA’s New Ground’s editor offered nomination of Barack Obama for reelection.
9. When Barack Obama challenged Bobby Rush for the 1st Congressional District in 2000, the Chicago DSA opted to recommend both:

For Congressman of the 1st Congressional District, the Executive Committee was faced with two very good candidates. As we are not making endorsements but merely recommendations, we felt no conflict in recommending both Bobby Rush and Barack Obama.

Bobby Rush was the incumbent Congressman. He was also a candidate for Mayor of Chicago in the last municipal elections, endorsed by Chicago DSA. While he hasn’t always been the ideal Congressman from a left perspective (being a cosponsor of the “NAFTA for Africa” bill, for example), he’s generally been quite good. To volunteer, call 773 264 7874. Contributions may be made to Citizens for Rush, 514 E. 95th St., Chicago, IL 60619.

Barak Obama is serving only his second term in the Illinois State Senate so he might be fairly charged with ambition, but the same might have be said of Bobby Rush when he ran against Congressman Charles Hayes. Obama also has put in time at the grass roots, working for five years as a community organizer in Harlem and in Chicago. When Obama participated in a 1996 UofC YDS Townhall Meeting on Economic Insecurity, much of what he had to say was well within the mainstream of European social democracy.[/indent]

Conclusion
Barack Obama has a long-term and sustained relationship with the Chicago DSA, an affiliate of the Democratic Socialists of America, and with the Chicago New Party. He participated in multiple membership meetings and in DSA-sponsored events, repeatedly sought their endorsement. This does not answer all questions about Barack Obama’s past relationships with multiple socialist groups. What the media need to find out is this: Has Barack Obama broken his ties with them> If so, when and why?

[Aloysius]

there is absolutely nothing wrong with any American being involved in any secessionist movement (they exist in all 50 states, furthest along one is in Vermont)... that is why when the framers of the Constitution brought the question up they decisively decided not to include the "perpetual union" clause which was present in the Articals of Confederation, essentially guaranteeing by the constitution the right of any state who ratified the Constitution to opt out at any point. hating the ultra-centralized federal power in the current Union of the United States is not wrong; in fact, it's every patriot's duty to hate that and want to work against it and restore the rights of states... even if that means breaking up the union (because it seems Washington won't listen unless states actually did that)

wanting to turn the American government into a socialist government, on the other hand, is very wrong. I mean, everyone has a right to the political process to effect the type of change they want; it would seem actual socialism ought to only be possible by a full out ammendment to the constitution though with some interpreters of the Constitution floating around, but exposing that Obama's policies tend towards the socialization of the US government is a proper way to use the process to stop that minority from accomplishing their goal of leading us into a socialist era.

internet archives are definitely accurate; sheesh, calling that into question is really grasping for straws. it proves that at one point the DSA considered Obama's win a win for their party... now, obviously at the time, Obama was an official member of the Democratic Party; it may be that there were ties between him and the DSA or it may simply be that the DSA liked his policies so much that they considered his victory a victory for their cause; but there's no reason to deny that it occured.

[Hassan]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1672913' date='Oct 8 2008, 07:24 PM']It's still "pallin" around with people who hate America. Palin is running for the second highest office in the land, and you want to somehow believe it doesn't matter that her husband associates with a group that wants to succeed from the U.S. and whose leader hates America? How is that irrelevant? It's perfectly relevant. If she disagrees with that group and it's hate for America, why did she record a speech for them and remained associated with them?

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwvPNXYrIyI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwvPNXYrIyI[/url]

And how about this one?
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eniG9l_7its"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eniG9l_7its[/url][/quote]


Do you honestly believe that Palin want's Alaska to break off from the US?

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1673119' date='Oct 8 2008, 10:29 PM']Do you honestly believe that Palin want's Alaska to break off from the US?[/quote]
I don't think she explicitly wants it, but she sure is good friends with those who do.

[Hassan]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1673129' date='Oct 8 2008, 11:45 PM']I don't think she explicitly wants it, but she sure is good friends with those who do.[/quote]


She is free to be friends with anyone she wants.

There is a LOT to attack Palin for I don't think it's fair to attack someone for their friendships.

I have plenty of friends and family who are hard core Zionists and I also have friends who are radically anti-Zionist.

Neither group reflects my views

I would hate to think I could be judged for the views of my friends

[kenrockthefirst]

[list=1]
[*]No one cares whether Obama may or may not be a "socialist." The economy's imploding. Name-calling isn't going to cut it.
[*]In what way is our current government not socialist? $700B Wall Street bailout, anyone? And now McCain wants to buy up all the "bad" mortgages. But it gets better: [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/09/business/economy/09econ.html?hp"]U.S. May Take Ownership Stake in Banks[/url]. That's not Obama, "my friends." That's the Bush administration.
[/list]

Edited October 9, 2008 by kenrockthefirst

[Aloysius]

yeah, both sides are moving towards socialism... the only difference is that Obama's idealogy has been decidedly socialist already while McCain/Bush pay lip service to capitalist idealogy...

[Didymus]

if only he were truly socialist, perhaps he wouldn't be in bed with Planned Parenthood like all the other pro-choice politicians..

It would make no sense for a true socialist to support the whims of such a massive monopoly on the destruction of our children and the exploitation of our women..

[Didymus]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1673336' date='Oct 9 2008, 11:24 AM']yeah, both sides are moving towards socialism... the only difference is that Obama's idealogy has been decidedly socialist already while McCain/Bush pay lip service to capitalist idealogy...[/quote]

I've been thinking about this lately. Which concept do you think would be more dangerous to the country?