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The 'nuculer' Option For The Two-party System


kenrockthefirst

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kenrockthefirst

[url="http://blog.nj.com/njv_paul_mulshine/2008/10/the_nuculer_option_for_the_two.html#more"]The 'nuculer' option for the two-party system[/url]

[i]I have never been a big fan of the parliamentary system. But I'm starting to see its advantages.

This revelation came to me when I began to encounter what I term "the moron perspective." The moron perspective is the idea that criticism of a candidate from the right somehow constitutes an endorsement of that candidate's opponent on the left. Here's an example. Suppose I write a column in which I say that John McCain is an advocate of immigration amnesty, is a tool of the Beltway bureaucracy and is wedded to a liberal internationalist foreign policy that has its root in the thought of Leon Trotsky.

Inevitably I will get an e-mail the next day from some moron asking me why I am supporting Barack Obama. To the e-mail writer, any criticism of the Republican candidate constitutes an endorsement of the Democrat. It is simply impossible for such a mind to comprehend that there is a political spectrum and that on that spectrum there is ample room to the right of the Republican Party.

But that was not what pushed me over the edge. That occurred the other night when I listened to Sarah Palin mispronouncing the word "nuclear" over and over again in the vice presidential debate. This marks the third presidential election in a row in which the GOP has nominated for national office a candidate who has failed to master sixth-grade English. Worse, for the past eight years, people have been making fun of President Bush for saying "nuculer." Yet Palin somehow failed to notice this despite all those newspapers she claims to read.[/i]

I would like to congratulate Mr. Mulshine for getting on board with me regarding:

[list=1]
[*]The fact that criticism of a candidate does not ipso facto imply endorsement of the other candidate.
[*]That Sarah Palin's inability to pronounce the word "nuclear" is a strike against her.
[/list]

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I have noticed "the moron perspective" a lot this election...

the nucular vs nuclear thing is, however, pure snobbery against accents which are not "proper" in your mind. of course it's understandable, it has always been the case that people are turned off more by different accents than by skin color and the bulwark of racism towards black people remains in being turned off by the way they speak (ebonics)...

what kind of school did you go to? they had pronunciation lessons in 6th grade english?

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kenrockthefirst

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1673337' date='Oct 9 2008, 10:27 AM']I have noticed "the moron perspective" a lot this election...

the nucular vs nuclear thing is, however, pure snobbery against accents which are not "proper" in your mind. of course it's understandable, it has always been the case that people are turned off more by different accents than by skin color and the bulwark of racism towards black people remains in being turned off by the way they speak (ebonics)...

what kind of school did you go to? they had pronunciation lessons in 6th grade english?[/quote]
[quote]The manner in which a person speaks reflects upon them, just as the manner in which a person dresses or his or her table manners reflect upon them. The point is, Sarah Palin may be the smartest person in the world but you would never know it because she can't pronounce the word "nuclear." Maybe I'm being naive but in my simple worldview, minimal qualification for the presidency includes a modicum of education and ability to communicate.[/quote]
I attended a run-of-the-mill elementary school and, doggone it, I *can* pronounce "nuclear."

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Lounge Daddy

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1673337' date='Oct 9 2008, 11:27 AM']I have noticed "the moron perspective" a lot this election...[/quote]

A lot of polarization lately. It seems more than ever, in recent times.

Edited by Lounge Daddy
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[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1673350' date='Oct 9 2008, 12:55 PM']I attended a run-of-the-mill elementary school and, doggone it, I *can* pronounce "nuclear."[/quote]
... but some people have different ACCENTS than you and do not naturally pronounce it. actually, due to the bigotted snobbery of people like you, there are actually schools for people wanting to go on national TV that help them adopt the neutral accent that doesn't make people think that they're stupid just because of the way that they speak. I'm sure Palin could pronounce it "nuclear" if she wanted to and thought about it, but instead just follows her natural speach patterns that she was encultured with... the same way my dad could say "Washington" if he wanted to and thought about it, but was raised with a Pittsburgh accent and calls it "Warshington"

(I've always wanted to see a movie with a pittsburgher going back in time, meeting George, and calling him "Mr. Warshington" lol)

there are any number of things that you can dislike Ms. Palin about, her pronunciation of this word is not one that any respectable person ought to harp on.

it's because of things like this that I purposefully spell potatoe with an e (an archaic spelling found in some dictionaries that my father says he was actually taught in elementary school) and maybe I'll start purposefully pronouncing it nucular too, as a sign of solidarity with people who have diverse patterns of using the English language.

anyway, I've noticed the moron principle from both sides... slight criticism of Obama to many brings up a whole slew of hatred against McCain and Palin (and how she can't pronounce nuclear)

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kenrockthefirst

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1673425' date='Oct 9 2008, 01:43 PM']... but some people have different ACCENTS than you and do not naturally pronounce it. actually, due to the bigotted snobbery of people like you, there are actually schools for people wanting to go on national TV that help them adopt the neutral accent that doesn't make people think that they're stupid just because of the way that they speak. I'm sure Palin could pronounce it "nuclear" if she wanted to and thought about it, but instead just follows her natural speach patterns that she was encultured with... the same way my dad could say "Washington" if he wanted to and thought about it, but was raised with a Pittsburgh accent and calls it "Warshington"

(I've always wanted to see a movie with a pittsburgher going back in time, meeting George, and calling him "Mr. Warshington" lol)

there are any number of things that you can dislike Ms. Palin about, her pronunciation of this word is not one that any respectable person ought to harp on.

it's because of things like this that I purposefully spell potatoe with an e (an archaic spelling found in some dictionaries that my father says he was actually taught in elementary school) and maybe I'll start purposefully pronouncing it nucular too, as a sign of solidarity with people who have diverse patterns of using the English language.

anyway, I've noticed the moron principle from both sides... slight criticism of Obama to many brings up a whole slew of hatred against McCain and Palin (and how she can't pronounce nuclear)[/quote]

[quote]We'll have to agree to differ. There are plenty of people with "regional accents" who still speak correctly. Shelby Foote comes to mind. In fact, the whole "regional accent" thing is just an excuse to not speak correctly. Of inner city African-Americans we would call that the "soft bigotry of low expectations." I have high expectations for someone who might be president, including speaking correctly and intelligently.[/quote]

BTW, I don't think that it's "bigoted" to hold someone to some kind of minimum standard in the use of language. Should we do away with spelling and grammar because of regional, and incorrect, usages? Come on.

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is my dad stupid when he says "George Warshington"?

grammar's another issue than pronunciation, I think... though little idiosyncrecies in grammar should be very easily forgiven in speech.

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The accent copout does not work here. I am from the south and the large majority of my friends do not mispronounce the word nuclear and never have. You have to actually rearrange the letters of the word to pronounce it the "bush way".. it is not about accents. Please. And expecting the president of the united states to sound educated and not like a hick is not bigoted or snobbish. How ridiculous..your angry knee-jerk reaction to the criticism of improper pronunciation is shocking.

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kenrockthefirst

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1673449' date='Oct 9 2008, 02:20 PM']is my dad stupid when he says "George Warshington"?

grammar's another issue than pronunciation, I think... though little idiosyncrecies in grammar should be very easily forgiven in speech.[/quote]
What do you want me to say, that your father is stupid? But if my name were "Washington," I'd want him to pronounce it correctly.

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[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1673454' date='Oct 9 2008, 03:27 PM']What do you want me to say, that your father is stupid? But if my name were "Washington," I'd want him to pronounce it correctly.[/quote]

Gotta agree with this. There is no "r" and when someone knows that there is no "r" in the word "wash" and makes no effort to change the way they say it, it shows that they do not care that they appear uneducated and/or are too lazy to simply re-train their mind in order to speak properly.

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[quote name='SpareTime' post='1673453' date='Oct 9 2008, 01:26 PM']The accent copout does not work here. I[b] am from the south and the large majority of my friends do not mispronounce the word nuclear and never have[/b]. You have to actually rearrange the letters of the word to pronounce it the "bush way".. it is not about accents. Please. And expecting the president of the united states to sound educated and not like a hick is not bigoted or snobbish. How ridiculous..your angry knee-jerk reaction to the criticism of improper pronunciation is shocking.[/quote]

So people from the south are the only ones with accents?


Statements like that come from stupid people. Not the mispronunciation of words.

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Archaeology cat

[quote name='SpareTime' post='1673453' date='Oct 9 2008, 08:26 PM']The accent copout does not work here. I am from the south and the large majority of my friends do not mispronounce the word nuclear and never have. You have to actually rearrange the letters of the word to pronounce it the "bush way".. it is not about accents. Please. And expecting the president of the united states to sound educated and not like a hick is not bigoted or snobbish. How ridiculous..your angry knee-jerk reaction to the criticism of improper pronunciation is shocking.[/quote]
Many people around me growing up (certainly not all) did/do pronounce nuclear incorrectly. However, I've never been one to use that as a cop-out. Perhaps I'm weird for always having looked up the words in a dictionary to see the correct pronunciation instead of just going with regional pronunciations. This doesn't mean I stopped saying them with a western KY accent, just that I pronounced them correctly with that accent. I tend to notice when people use incorrect pronunciations & grammar, and think it important for leaders to use correct grammar/pronunciation. That being said, I would not put this very high on my list of issues for this election, though I cringe when I hear "nuclear" mispronounced.

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kenrockthefirst

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1673462' date='Oct 9 2008, 03:42 PM']Many people around me growing up (certainly not all) did/do pronounce nuclear incorrectly. However, I've never been one to use that as a cop-out. Perhaps I'm weird for always having looked up the words in a dictionary to see the correct pronunciation instead of just going with regional pronunciations. This doesn't mean I stopped saying them with a western KY accent, just that I pronounced them correctly with that accent. I tend to notice when people use incorrect pronunciations & grammar, and think it important for leaders to use correct grammar/pronunciation. That being said, I would not put this very high on my list of issues for this election, though I cringe when I hear "nuclear" mispronounced.[/quote]
Right. Regional accent is a "you say po-TAY-to, I say po-TAH-to" type of thing. "Nucular" is just wrong.

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goldenchild17

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1673337' date='Oct 9 2008, 10:27 AM']I have noticed "the moron perspective" a lot this election...

the nucular vs nuclear thing is, however, pure snobbery against accents which are not "proper" in your mind. of course it's understandable, it has always been the case that people are turned off more by different accents than by skin color and the bulwark of racism towards black people remains in being turned off by the way they speak (ebonics)...

what kind of school did you go to? they had pronunciation lessons in 6th grade english?[/quote]

definitely. I'm on board with the whole first post except for the mispronunciation bit, that's quite over the top and unnecessary. The two party's candidates and platforms are quite ridiculous enough without having to go into how people speak.

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and who makes you the authority on that? the Pittsburgh regional accent has a lot of "incorrect" things in it. it is absolutely snobbish and you have proven my point that it is snobbish by saying that people who pronounce it "Warshington" are lazy, stupid, or uneducated because they don't try to alter the way they speak.

no, I didn't want you to call my father stupid. I figured it was such a RIDICULOUS proposition to consider someone stupid for speaking the way they were raised to speak stupid that you wouldn't even think it a possibility. this is a large part of the basis of much of the racism in the world... ebonics considered to be "uneducated" even though it actually carries the phonetic structure of the West Coast of Africa and is equally as grammatical as standard english. you simply have a narrow minded point of view about different pronunciations. the tyranny over language which makes it so rigid is an absolutely wrong-minded idea... I'm not saying a free for all destruction of all grammar, but the diversity of pronunciations (from Warshington to nucular to y'all) is something that ought to be embraced among anglophones but we're so deeply rooted in the snobbery of the elites that we consider certain accents and pronunciations to be "lazy" or "uneducated"... it is an absolutely repulsive way of thinking about language. I mean, I love standard english myself (especially in writing), but it is a wrong-minded idea to think that pronoucing things wrongly makes you uneducated, especially if you're pronouncing them in a way that a large percentage of the anglophone populace pronounces them.

it repulses me that anyone can seriously think an opinion like this is remotely supported by anything intelligent... it is an emotional knee-jerk reaction based upon the snobbery surrounding the education you were brought up in... it's part of the trend towards uniformity that is going all around the world destroying diversity; ie first nationalism (which tries to create uniformity through heavy handed government school systems) then globalization.

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