What Obama Really Thinks Of Abortion Survivors

[foolishmortal]

[url="http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28926"]http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28926[/url]
He depersonalizes the unborn as Jews were depersonalized by Hitler and slaves were in America once as well by the Muslims that first used Africans for that and those who find slaves for all kinds of uses amongst many types of people in peacetime and in war.
The author said it was Obama being afraid of the overturning of RoevWade. I don't think it's just that. I think it's about doing away with God's influence in the world by trying to silence the Catholic Church and promising gifts to the poor, playing to the pride and lust of the educated, fear of religious people in "reasonable" people, and gifts for the poor to bring it about.


There was a book called "Liberalism is a Sin". I think it's very obvious now. Conservatives acting badly, act without the blessing of their faith (at least if Christian or Jew, but Buddhism isn't for that either), even if their leader should ever informally call for something evil. What informs a godless liberal or one using the name of God for their ends, even if natural charity for many does, the objects of their charity (not for the unborn according to many of them) can change as can the manner of love (romantic or erotic for the same sex or "mercy" killing for many of them)--both already established for us by Christ as taught by the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church (the pure Bride of Christ protected from heresy by the Holy Spirit).


noassistedsuicide.com, also talked about on World Over this weekend, also covers another pet project of the left.

Of course, Obama and most leftists are after traditional marriage as well.

Those who are Catholic Democrats (esp. liberal ones), only know both parties declare war, but your party declares war on those who cannot scream, run or get their soul baptized for heaven. That can happen in military wars, but not on purpose unless a soldier loses his/her way. The Iraq War may have been unjust, but it does not compare in wickedness to that declared against the defenseless. The Patriotic Act, if used to its worst possible ends, would not compare. Maybe only liturgical abuse would be worse than abortion as it would be done, like Eucharist desecration, against Christ, Himself.

You can always vote for an Independent but, unless Pat Buchanan is running, you can't be assured that candidate would be concerned about satisfying the large conservative pro-life base. Still, that one, unless a Green Party candidate, is likely to be more reasonable than Obama on life issues.

[Hassan]

[quote name='foolishmortal' post='1675521' date='Oct 12 2008, 08:41 AM'][url="http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28926"]http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28926[/url]
He depersonalizes the unborn as Jews were depersonalized by Hitler and slaves were in America once as well by the Muslims that first used Africans for that and those who find slaves for all kinds of uses amongst many types of people in peacetime and in war.
The author said it was Obama being afraid of the overturning of RoevWade. I don't think it's just that. I think it's about doing away with God's influence in the world by trying to silence the Catholic Church and promising gifts to the poor, playing to the pride and lust of the educated, fear of religious people in "reasonable" people, and gifts for the poor to bring it about.


There was a book called "Liberalism is a Sin". I think it's very obvious now. Conservatives acting badly, act without the blessing of their faith (at least if Christian or Jew, but Buddhism isn't for that either), even if their leader should ever informally call for something evil. What informs a godless liberal or one using the name of God for their ends, even if natural charity for many does, the objects of their charity (not for the unborn according to many of them) can change as can the manner of love (romantic or erotic for the same sex or "mercy" killing for many of them)--both already established for us by Christ as taught by the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church (the pure Bride of Christ protected from heresy by the Holy Spirit).


noassistedsuicide.com, also talked about on World Over this weekend, also covers another pet project of the left.

Of course, Obama and most leftists are after traditional marriage as well.

Those who are Catholic Democrats (esp. liberal ones), only know both parties declare war, but your party declares war on those who cannot scream, run or get their soul baptized for heaven. That can happen in military wars, but not on purpose unless a soldier loses his/her way. The Iraq War may have been unjust, but it does not compare in wickedness to that declared against the defenseless. The Patriotic Act, if used to its worst possible ends, would not compare. Maybe only liturgical abuse would be worse than abortion as it would be done, like Eucharist desecration, against Christ, Himself.

You can always vote for an Independent but, unless Pat Buchanan is running, you can't be assured that candidate would be concerned about satisfying the large conservative pro-life base. Still, that one, unless a Green Party candidate, is likely to be more reasonable than Obama on life issues.[/quote]


Hey you know that cool thing you do, like when you use the horror of the holocaust to stir up emotions for abortion?

Well Sam (I hope you don't mind if I call you Sam) some Jews actually get kind of offended when folks such as yourself use the near extinction of their people for a political ploy

[Justin86]

Advocating to save the lives of unborn babies is a political ploy? Is that what you're going to tell Christ on Judgment Day?

[SpareTime]

pssst... liberals are not the only ones using God or His name for their own ends.

[Apotheoun]

The crime of abortion has caused a modern holocaust, and is just as morally evil as the murder of 6 million Jews by the Nazis before and during World War II, and the massacre of nearly 1 million Armenians by the Muslim Turks at the beginning of the 20th century.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1675661' date='Oct 12 2008, 03:20 PM']The crime of abortion has caused a modern holocaust, and is just as morally evil as the murder of 6 million Jews by the Nazis before and during World War II, and the massacre of nearly 1 million Armenians by the Muslim Turks at the beginning of the 20th century.[/quote]


the genocide of Christian Germans (as we are not attatching majority religious adherance to nationality) or Muslim Turks is not the same as abortion. The fact that a Jewish man or woman, and Armenian man or woman, and a British man or woman are all "persons" can be established. The are, from an evidentry stand point, different from a fetus in terms of cognitive ability and self awareness. That the fetus has a soul given to it at the moment of contraception is a religious postulation that cannot be proven nor is it a fact accessible to everyone independent of subjective, unverifiable religious beliefs.

Furthermore, even if you could demonstrate everything you believe about the fetus you are still useing the emotional baggage of the holocaust to invoke emotional sympathy for yor cause. It is like when pro-Palistinian groups claim that a "holocaust" is now occuring under Israeli occupation. Most countries across the world, ours excluded, reconises the crimes commited by Israeli against the Palistinians, yet to use the emotional baggage of the holocaust is still wrong, it is not a replication of the holocaust, nor is abortion a replication of the holocaust. Even if the fetus had a soul abortion would simply not be a replication (in the sense of an identical model) of the homocaust and any basis logic text will attest to this.

[kamiller42]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYRpIf2F9NA"]A powerful reminder of what is at stake here.[/url]

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1675676' date='Oct 12 2008, 02:34 PM']the genocide of Christian Germans (as we are not attatching majority religious adherance to nationality) or Muslim Turks is not the same as abortion. The fact that a Jewish man or woman, and Armenian man or woman, and a British man or woman are all "persons" can be established. The are, from an evidentry stand point, different from a fetus in terms of cognitive ability and self awareness. That the fetus has a soul given to it at the moment of contraception is a religious postulation that cannot be proven nor is it a fact accessible to everyone independent of subjective, unverifiable religious beliefs.

Furthermore, even if you could demonstrate everything you believe about the fetus you are still useing the emotional baggage of the holocaust to invoke emotional sympathy for yor cause. It is like when pro-Palistinian groups claim that a "holocaust" is now occuring under Israeli occupation. Most countries across the world, ours excluded, reconises the crimes commited by Israeli against the Palistinians, yet to use the emotional baggage of the holocaust is still wrong, it is not a replication of the holocaust, nor is abortion a replication of the holocaust. Even if the fetus had a soul abortion would simply not be a replication (in the sense of an identical model) of the homocaust and any basis logic text will attest to this.[/quote]
Murder is murder. The killing of an innocent human being whether in the womb or at the age or 10, 20, 30, 40, etc., is a crime. That you are blind to this fact is a reflection of your own impoverished moral state, and not a reflection of objective reality.

Moreover, the word "person" ([i]hypostasis[/i]), which is both a philosophical and a theological term, simply means rational subsistence, and so it applies to human nature as it is actualized in a distinct mode of being (i.e., it applies to all human beings in the womb and outside of the womb). In other words, the "fetus" (i.e., the child in the womb) has its own act of being, which began at the moment of its conception in the womb, and this act of being cannot be identical with the act of being of its mother, which is by necessity prior to the being of the child.

Edited October 12, 2008 by Apotheoun

[Seven77]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1675676' date='Oct 12 2008, 03:34 PM']the genocide of Christian Germans (as we are not attatching majority religious adherance to nationality) or Muslim Turks is not the same as abortion. The fact that a Jewish man or woman, and Armenian man or woman, and a British man or woman are all "persons" can be established. The are, from an evidentry stand point, different from a fetus in terms of cognitive ability and self awareness. That the fetus has a soul given to it at the moment of contraception is a religious postulation that cannot be proven nor is it a fact accessible to everyone independent of subjective, unverifiable religious beliefs.

Furthermore, even if you could demonstrate everything you believe about the fetus you are still useing the emotional baggage of the holocaust to invoke emotional sympathy for yor cause. It is like when pro-Palistinian groups claim that a "holocaust" is now occuring under Israeli occupation. Most countries across the world, ours excluded, reconises the crimes commited by Israeli against the Palistinians, yet to use the emotional baggage of the holocaust is still wrong, it is not a replication of the holocaust, nor is abortion a replication of the holocaust. Even if the fetus had a soul abortion would simply not be a replication (in the sense of an identical model) of [b][u]the homocaust [/u][/b]and any basis logic text will attest to this.[/quote]

the what now?

the Holocaust killed millions of innocents...abortion kills millions of innocents.

what do you think an abortion survivor is?

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1675694' date='Oct 12 2008, 04:52 PM']Murder is murder. The killing of an innocent human being whether in the womb or at the age or 10, 20, 30, 40, etc., is a crime. That you are blind to this fact is a reflection of your own impoverished moral state, and not a reflection of objective reality.[/quote]

ok, so rather than attack my reasoning you say I am bling to the clear and obvious truth of your position because of my impoverished moral state.

That's the way to win an argument and bring people to your side.

How about this, you reject the clear reflection of objective reality in my post because of YOUR impoverished moral state

Let's leave the fourth grade polemics aside and just debate rationally

[quote]Moreover, the word "person" (hypostasis), which is both a philosophical and a theological term, simply means rational subsistence, and so it applies to human nature as it is actualized in a particularized mode of being (i.e., it applies to all human beings in the womb and outside of the womb).[/quote]

I have not read Aquinas saince 10th grade and I have forgotten just about everything I knew about Scholastic theology and terms. Can you eludicate on that somewhat?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1675700' date='Oct 12 2008, 02:58 PM']ok, so rather than attack my reasoning you say I am bling to the clear and obvious truth of your position because of my impoverished moral state.[/quote]
Mentioning a "logic" book is not the same thing as using logic.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1675700' date='Oct 12 2008, 02:58 PM']I have not read Aquinas saince 10th grade and I have forgotten just about everything I knew about Scholastic theology and terms. Can you eludicate on that somewhat?[/quote]
Why would you want to read Aquinas? He was wrong on this issue. I have absolutely zero interest in Aquinas' philosophical theology.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1675700' date='Oct 12 2008, 02:58 PM']. . . Scholastic theology and terms.[/quote]
I have no interest at all in Scholastic theology.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1675676' date='Oct 12 2008, 02:34 PM']The fact that a Jewish man or woman, and Armenian man or woman, and a British man or woman are all "persons" can be established. The are, from an evidentry stand point, different from a fetus in terms of cognitive ability and self awareness.[/quote]
Clearly, an adult – as opposed to a child – has actualized many latent abilities that were present in his being from the first moment of his existence, but that does not mean that the child is not a person because he has not actualized his potential ability to do math, or read a book, or do any one of the many other things that come about through human effort. In fact it is not possible for a man to willfully develop ([i]actualize[/i]) an ability that was not inherently present within his nature as a "possibility", i.e., as an unrealized power, for that would involve bring something into being from nothing, and that idea is clearly contrary to right reason. Now, of course, in addition to abilities that are developed through acts of a man's will, there are also abilities ([i]powers[/i]) innately present within a man's nature that become active over time without any willed effort on his part (e.g., fertility), and these types of abilities are simply connected to the natural life cycle of the human being (i.e., to the process of maturation). Thus, in summary, some personal abilities require a man's willed effort in order to be actualized, while others become actualized as a normal part of the development of his being over time.

[quote name='Hassan' post='1675676' date='Oct 12 2008, 02:34 PM']That the fetus has a soul given to it at the moment of contraception is a religious postulation that cannot be proven nor is it a fact accessible to everyone independent of subjective, unverifiable religious beliefs.[/quote]
I do not know why you brought up the soul, but that word simply refers to the "vital principle" of a being, i.e., that the being in question is alive ([i]animate[/i]).

Edited October 12, 2008 by Apotheoun

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1675702' date='Oct 12 2008, 04:04 PM']Mentioning a "logic" book is not the same thing as using logic.[/quote]


I made a statement of logical fact about identity theory.