Pro Life Democrat

[flip]

[quote name='notardillacid' post='1683323' date='Oct 22 2008, 03:01 AM']Since this is the bolded part of your post, I will adress it:

Are you claiming the rich don't pay taxes at a higher rate than those of less wealth in this country?

I'd also inquire what is the amount of money necessary for the government 'charity' (lol) fair in your opinion?[/quote]


I'm claiming that the republicans (and republican party) get angry when democrats want to increase the taxes on the rich and 'spread the wealth' to the poor ad middle class. When millionaires and big companies get TONS of tax breaks, and the republican party champions that - while we still have people in poverty... that's seems anti-Catholic.

I'm for a free economy, but there is something wrong when a CEO gets paid more money for 15 minutes of checking his email than the janitor working for him makes in a week. That is a problem.


I'm not share what is "fair" for the government to give. I think the people should be taxed accordingly to end poverty by social programs and injustice in the world by government aid, and I believe people also need to practice personal charity... i think it is a two fold solution.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='flip' post='1683625' date='Oct 22 2008, 04:54 PM']Thanks for that. I did some research, and socialism as a theory has been condemned. It hasn't worked...

but I wonder what will work? I believe in a free economy, but not a radical capitalism that treats people like commodities. A system where people work for the economy and not the economy for the people. The republican platform has brought this...hence the tax breaks to the wealthiest upper crust of society. It is a system that benefits the rich and perpetuates a culture of materialism, elitism, and pride.

What system of government really looks out for the marginalized as Jesus would?[/quote]

Capitalism without morality is evil. Think the Pope has touched on that thought. I would also quote the words of Pope Benedict XVI

''We are now seeing, in the collapse of major banks, that money vanishes, it is nothing. All these things that appear to be real are in fact secondary. Only God's words are a solid reality''.

And the Church has condemned both the theory of Socialism, and in practice.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='flip' post='1683631' date='Oct 22 2008, 06:01 PM']I'm claiming that the republicans (and republican party) get angry when democrats want to increase the taxes on the rich and 'spread the wealth' to the poor ad middle class. When millionaires and big companies get TONS of tax breaks, and the republican party champions that - while we still have people in poverty... that's seems anti-Catholic.

I'm for a free economy, but there is something wrong when a CEO gets paid more money for 15 minutes of checking his email than the janitor working for him makes in a week. That is a problem.


I'm not share what is "fair" for the government to give. I think the people should be taxed accordingly to end poverty by social programs and injustice in the world by government aid, and I believe people also need to practice personal charity... i think it is a two fold solution.[/quote]
You insinuated in your earlier post that the wealthy don't pay taxes at a higher rate than the poor. They do. Even given tax breaks, they do. I challenge you to prove otherwise.

As far as poverty goes, you think the government (I assume the USA government) can end poverty and injustice? America isn't the world's savior. There is just no way we can be all that to everyone. If you believe what you just wrote you endorse extreme socialism. Keep increasing taxes until there is no poor or everyone is poor. And we all know which is gonna happen first

[flip]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1683638' date='Oct 22 2008, 06:09 PM']Capitalism without morality is evil. Think the Pope has touched on that thought. I would also quote the words of Pope Benedict XVI

''We are now seeing, in the collapse of major banks, that money vanishes, it is nothing. All these things that appear to be real are in fact secondary. Only God's words are a solid reality''.

And the Church has condemned both the theory of Socialism, and in practice.[/quote]


thanks for that!

[flip]

[quote name='notardillacid' post='1683639' date='Oct 22 2008, 06:09 PM']You insinuated in your earlier post that the wealthy don't pay taxes at a higher rate than the poor. They do. Even given tax breaks, they do. I challenge you to prove otherwise.

As far as poverty goes, you think the government (I assume the USA government) can end poverty and injustice? America isn't the world's savior. There is just no way we can be all that to everyone. If you believe what you just wrote you endorse extreme socialism. Keep increasing taxes until there is no poor or everyone is poor. And we all know which is gonna happen first [/quote]

I know that it looked like I insinuated that, that's why I cleared it up. I know they pay more $$$ in taxes. Please keep up.

Again, please read my post. I said it was two fold: government programs and personal charity. I think we need to make our government more Christ like. I don't give in to this idea that "since it's never going to happen, we should not even try".

I mean, do I think abortion is ever going to end? No. But I hope that it will...and that's why I fight for legislation that will attempt to end it.

Do I think poverty is going to end? No. But I hope that it will...and that's why I fight for legislation that will attempt to end it.

Edited October 22, 2008 by flip

[CatherineM]

I just read an article in the Western Catholic Reporter where a member of the board at Franciscan University, a legal scholar and dean emeritus at Duquesne University has resigned from the board because he publicly came out in support of Obama. He said that, "We have lost the abortion battle -- permanently."

I hate to say this, but he may be right, at least in regard to the legal battle. I'm wondering if we need to shift focus onto fighting the other side of the battle, trying to reduce the things in our society that make women feel like they need to have abortions.

[flip]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1683651' date='Oct 22 2008, 06:24 PM']I just read an article in the Western Catholic Reporter where a member of the board at Franciscan University, a legal scholar and dean emeritus at Duquesne University has resigned from the board because he publicly came out in support of Obama. He said that, "We have lost the abortion battle -- permanently."

I hate to say this, but he may be right, at least in regard to the legal battle. I'm wondering if we need to shift focus onto fighting the other side of the battle, trying to reduce the things in our society that make women feel like they need to have abortions.[/quote]


I don't think we have lost permanently... but I think we need to do what you are saying (reduce the things in our society that make women feel like they need to have abortions) coupled with legislation that makes it illegal.

And I think we can still illegalize abortion. If we overturn Roe vs Wade, it will be back to the states decision. Which will ultimately just move around the abortions... but then we can work in all state governments at making it illegal....

man, thinking about it like that makes for a very uphill battle. But I still hope that we can end it!

[mommas_boy]

[quote name='flip' post='1683662' date='Oct 22 2008, 06:35 PM']I don't think we have lost permanently... but I think we need to do what you are saying (reduce the things in our society that make women feel like they need to have abortions) coupled with legislation that makes it illegal.

And I think we can still illegalize abortion. If we overturn Roe vs Wade, it will be back to the states decision. Which will ultimately just move around the abortions... but then we can work in all state governments at making it illegal....

man, thinking about it like that makes for a very uphill battle. But I still hope that we can end it![/quote]

I've said it once and will say it again ... we don't need for it to be a "states' decision". It needs to be a federal decision. This is why I feel that traditional republicans, who view the issue in terms of federal/state right to make a decision, would not be likely to make abortion illegal. Indeed, Pro-Life democrats are needed in order to propose and push forward federal legislation.