Al Qaida Endorses John Mccain

[Adrestia]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1683971' date='Oct 22 2008, 10:39 PM']I agree. But I don't think our reactionary approach worked well, either. I think there needs to be a happy medium. Right now, we go out and accuse everyone who may disagree with us as being an "enemy of the free world."[/quote]
Bush has lightened up on that in the past year and a half... I do worry that MaCain will take us back to the good ol' "Axis of Evil" days.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1683977' date='Oct 22 2008, 09:42 PM']Bush has lightened up on that in the past year and a half... I do worry that MaCain will take us back to the good ol' "Axis of Evil" days.[/quote]
I agree, and again, I agree.

[Ash Wednesday]

I don't really see this making a difference either way. 2004 was the election of post 9/11 worries and the "Security Mom." 2008 is all about the economy and "Joe the Plumber."

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' post='1683986' date='Oct 22 2008, 09:49 PM']I don't really see this making a difference either way. 2004 was the election of post 9/11 worries and the "Security Mom." 2008 is all about the economy and "Joe the Plumber."[/quote]
It does make a difference to some votes, though. After living through the post 9/11 reactions of the Bush administration, and seeing their effects, they'd rather not do it again.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1683970' date='Oct 22 2008, 11:39 PM']They [i]did[/i] act before 9/11, they just missed.

edit for clarity:
They = the US government.[/quote]
We didn't miss. We ignored our chances (kind of like when McCain fails to swing at hanging curve balls in a debate, but that's another thread). Clinton was recorded on tape as taking a pass on an offer to arrest Obama because he felt we didn't have enough evidence to prosecute. When the WTC was bombed in the early nineties, we took the evidence, made some arrests state side, and little else. Ditto for bombing of USS Cole.

Not only did we have a weak response, we handcuffed ourselves with a silly policy known as the Wall Policy which compartmentalized intelligence and law enforcement agencies.

I see nothing wrong with calling countries with governments involved in evil activities "evil." Reagan called communist Russia the evil empire, and he was right. Nothing wrong with that.

fidei,

How have we been reactionary? How have we been too reactionary? Ok, ok. I will admit one way, and it's a sore point with Bush I have. There was no need to federalize airport security. That was an unnecessary expansion of the federal government. Anything else?

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1683992' date='Oct 22 2008, 11:51 PM']It does make a difference to some votes, though. After living through the post 9/11 reactions of the Bush administration, and seeing their effects, they'd rather not do it again.[/quote]

You've got a point there -- I guess after years of "Al Queda Al Queda Al Queda Al Queda Al Queda Bin Laden Terrorism Terrorism War War Al Queda Al Queda" being reported in the news, it just seems like Americans have this habit of their eyes glazing over and being more worried about their jobs.

Edited October 23, 2008 by Ash Wednesday

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='kamiller42' post='1683995' date='Oct 22 2008, 09:53 PM']fidei,

How have we been reactionary? How have we been too reactionary? Ok, ok. I will admit one way, and it's a sore point with Bush I have. There was no need to federalize airport security. That was an unnecessary expansion of the federal government. Anything else?[/quote]
In the traditional sense of the word, since 9/11, the U.S. has been reactionary in that we've tried to force our will and ways on every country that'll listen, and threatened dire consequences to those who wouldn't. Rather than allowing organic change in our policy towards countries (i.e. address the hatred by reviewing our actions) we've taken the more hard line "no negotiations" mindset, and insist that everyone abide by our standards. A prime example of this being when we were dissatisfied with the UN and it's searches for WMDs in Iraq. Rather than accept their findings, we went ahead and did our own thing.

Edited October 23, 2008 by fidei defensor

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' post='1683996' date='Oct 22 2008, 09:55 PM']You've got a point there -- I guess after years of "Al Queda Al Queda Al Queda Al Queda Al Queda Bin Laden Terrorism Terrorism War War Al Queda Al Queda" being reported in the news, it just seems like Americans have this habit of their eyes glazing over and being more worried about their jobs.[/quote]
I definitely can see where you are coming from, and I agree. The economy is, for the most part, the larger issue and the most likely to warrant concern.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1684004' date='Oct 22 2008, 11:59 PM']In the traditional sense of the word, since 9/11, the U.S. has been reactionary in that we've tried to force our will and ways on every country that'll listen, and threatened dire consequences to those who wouldn't. Rather than allowing organic change in our policy towards countries (i.e. address the hatred by reviewing our actions) we've taken the more hard line "no negotiations" mindset, and insist that everyone abide by our standards. A prime example of this being when we were dissatisfied with the UN and it's searches for WMDs in Iraq. Rather than accept their findings, we went ahead and did our own thing.[/quote]
What do you mean threatened "dire consequences"? Not every European country was part of the multinational force. What dire action did we take against them? Stop trade with France? The fact is those who didn't join us were left to their devices.

We were not dissatisfied with the UN inspections. We were dissatisfied with Saddam's lack of cooperation with the UN as agreed upon the treaty of the Persian Gulf War. We were dissatisfied with the UN Security Council's lack of action in the face of treaty violations.

We later found out why there was a lack of action. Many of those countries were on the take, taking money destined for humanitarian assistance. The authority was corrupt. The UN is not the only multinational authority.