Iran Endorses Obama

[Adrestia]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1684457' date='Oct 23 2008, 05:22 PM']Yeah maybe... but The same guy also said that Jews are "the most detested people in all humanity"

"Today, the Zionist regime is on a definite slope to collapse and there is no way for it to out of the cesspool created by itself and its supporters….American empire in the world is reaching the end of its road, and its next rulers must limit their interference to their own borders. Today, the thought of hegemony quickly becomes a demerit."

"Israel is destined for destruction and will soon disappear"

"Are they human beings?... They (Zionists) are a group of blood-thirsty savages putting all other criminals to shame."[/quote]
were you talking about Larijani or Ahmadinejad?

[dUSt]

I'm on Obama's side on this one.

The dude is a leader of a country. A very important country. Why have preconditions just to sit down and talk? Doesn't seem like the Christian thing to do.

Even gangsta thugs will give you respect if you show them respect. It doesn't mean you have to condone their actions.

[kujo]

[quote name='kamiller42' post='1684639' date='Oct 23 2008, 11:36 PM']Sad when America's own citizens see Bush is the saber rattler and fail to see the actual saber rattler is Ahmadinejad. [url="http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20081023/wl_mcclatchy/3080999_1"]How is this for saber rattling[/url]?

Meeting with tyrants like Ahmadinejad at a presidential level without pre-conditions is foolish. America will meet and has met with anyone at lower levels. That is nothing new. What is new is Obama wanting to legitimize psychotic leaders like Ahmadinejad by meeting with them at a presidential level without pre-conditions. I sense a new generation of Neville Chamberlains. Casting our pearls before swine is not diplomacy.[/quote]

I never said that Ahmadinejad is not without fault, nor have I ever held the position that we should sit by as he continues to instigate conflict between his country and the West. Rather, I believe that we should employ whatever means necessary to avoid what is probably inevitable: a paramilitary strike against the half dozen or so alleged-nuclear facilities in Iran. Diplomacy, including both carrots (like the ones suggested by Obama's plan) and sticks ([i]real[/i] sanctions, not the foofy compromised ones that have been used thusfar, possible military strikes, etc.) should be our policy. McCain, to his credit, seems to have a similar plan, though I simply don't have the confidence in his ability to sit down and hammer out any sort of deal.

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1684643' date='Oct 23 2008, 11:38 PM']No, it's much better to piss them off until they just bomb us and kill us all.

I'm glad we have people like you to set us on the right track [/quote]

I don't think our policy has been to "piss them off." Instead, we are doing our very best to deny a very obvious historical fact-- Iran is a regional hegemony and should be treated as such. We can make them an ally or at least cool off the tension and rhetoric which does nothing but push us closer to the brink.

[quote name='Hassan' post='1684652' date='Oct 23 2008, 11:43 PM']5-For the love of God can the right go five minutes without comparing claiming some world leader is a "new Hitler" or someone is a "new chamberlain" Obama is not Chamberlain, Ahmadinejad is not Hitler, this is not post WWI Europe we are talking about.[/quote]

Sadly, our country, as well as most of the Western democracies we are allies with, have suffered under the Munich Syndrome for the past 60 years with no end in sight.

[quote name='Justin86' post='1684666' date='Oct 23 2008, 11:49 PM']You really believe "the military option" is on the table for a Democratic President? In response to the first World Trade Center bombing Clinton bombed an aspirin factory, and shot a missile up a camel's butt. I have seen no evidence Obama's "military option" would be anymore effective.

Oh, and I'm not buying Obama's recant of his "no pre-conditions". He actually lied in the first debate and tried to say Henry Kissinger agreed with him! He still holds it, I'm sure of it.[/quote]

I do believe that Obama will kick "butt" if necessary. I think it'll take him longer to reach the point where he believes that is necessary, though.

And you won't find any arguments or defense of Clinton from me. Instead of kanoodling with an intern, he should've ordered Bin Laden to be killed after the USS Kole.

[quote name='kamiller42' post='1684700' date='Oct 24 2008, 12:10 AM']Diplomatic channels were never closed. It's the lefties and most media pushing the idea it was closed over and over.

2 - You don't think his comments about Israel and the Jewish people are a bit crazy? The label fundamentalist does not abdicate one from being insane. See David Koresh for example.

3 - I missed that. So if McCain was right all along, why should anyone vote for Obama?

4 - Allow uninhibited inspections of nuclear facilities. Cease all nuclear weapons development.

5 - I think if we fail to learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it.[/quote]

We are all encouraged by the low to mid-level discussions being had between our country and Iran. Whoever the next president is needs to continue and expand this policy.

As for Ahmadinejad's comments...they are scary. No questions asked; however, they do not delegitimize the office he holds, only sheds light on the man who holds it and how unstable he is. Thus, we must be careful and surgical rather than boisterous and obnoxious when dealing with him.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1684714' date='Oct 23 2008, 11:21 PM']I'm on Obama's side on this one.

The dude is a leader of a country. A very important country. Why have preconditions just to sit down and talk? Doesn't seem like the Christian thing to do.[/quote]
Um, but we are talking and have been talking. When Ahmadinejad gets serious about diplomacy and peace, the American president and Ahmadinejad will sit and talk.

As I stated in the previous message, preconditions is not incompatible with Christianity. (Matthew 7:6)

[kujo]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1684714' date='Oct 24 2008, 12:21 AM']I'm on Obama's side on this one.

The dude is a leader of a country. A very important country. Why have preconditions just to sit down and talk? Doesn't seem like the Christian thing to do.

Even gangsta thugs will give you respect if you show them respect. It doesn't mean you have to condone their actions.[/quote]

EXACTLY!

Like it or not, President Ahmadinejad occupies a legitimate office of a legitimate government. Insinuating that we would "legitimize" him just by sitting with him is preposterous and smacks of the sort of American exceptionalism that "they" hate in the first place.

[Hassan]

[quote name='kamiller42' post='1684700' date='Oct 23 2008, 11:10 PM']Diplomatic channels were never closed. It's the lefties and most media pushing the idea it was closed over and over.

Here is a 2006 article that documents how wrong you and Fidei are...


Yup. That sounds like a bomb first Iran policy to me. And I can find plenty of more articles just like that.[/quote]

So diplomatic channels have always been open, but now Buch is announving that what was always the case will now take effect?

[quote]You and Fidei and maybe some others have some stereotyped image of Bush's foreign policy strategy is, and you are wrong.[/quote]

yeah, poor misunderstood Bush.


[quote]Get the facts about the human rights violations carried out and being carried out by Ahmadinejad and his administration.[/quote]

Did I deney human rights violations in Iran or did I deney that he was a tyrant. Human rights violations have been carried out by the Bush Administration, that does not make bush a tyrant.

[quote]2 - You don't think his comments about Israel and the Jewish people are a bit crazy? The label fundamentalist does not abdicate one from being insane. See David Koresh for example.[/quote]

Some comments have been nutty. Saying stupid/ignorant things does not make them medically psychotic.

[quote]3 - I missed that. So if McCain was right all along, why should anyone vote for Obama?[/quote]

I never said McCain was right, I said Obama has changed his position.


[quote]4 - Allow uninhibited inspections of nuclear facilities. Cease all nuclear weapons development.[/quote]

The Iranians contest the claim they are deeloping Nukes, in fact this is exactly what the disagreament we need to negotiate over is about.


[quote]5 - I think if we fail to learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it.[/quote]


alright

[Hassan]

by the way. An endosment from from the Iranian Parlimentarian leader is not an endorsment from the Iranian Government.

If Reed endorsed an Iranian cannidate that would mean Reed endorses x, not America endorses x

[kujo]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1684740' date='Oct 24 2008, 12:37 AM']The Iranians contest the claim they are deeloping Nukes, in fact this is exactly what the disagreament we need to negotiate over is about.[/quote]

They dispute the claim but we are pretty sure they are full of cr.ap. I did a research project last semester on what my policy directives would be in the case of Iran. If you're interested in looking it over (it's a 20 slide Powerpoint that is prettier than Al Gore's), let me know.

[Hassan]

[quote name='kujo' post='1684744' date='Oct 23 2008, 10:41 PM']They dispute the claim but we are pretty sure they are full of cr.ap. I did a research project last semester on what my policy directives would be in the case of Iran. If you're interested in looking it over (it's a 20 slide Powerpoint that is prettier than Al Gore's), let me know.[/quote]


Sure, I'd be happy to.

But please note I did not say they were honest. I simply find it Ironic when one side says the preconditions to negotiate over x is that the other paty admit it is wrong/lying and fufill everything the initial party demanded and abandons it's respective claims.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='kujo' post='1684723' date='Oct 23 2008, 11:26 PM']I never said that Ahmadinejad is not without fault, nor have I ever held the position that we should sit by as he continues to instigate conflict between his country and the West. Rather, I believe that we should employ whatever means necessary to avoid what is probably inevitable: a paramilitary strike against the half dozen or so alleged-nuclear facilities in Iran. Diplomacy, including both carrots (like the ones suggested by Obama's plan) and sticks ([i]real[/i] sanctions, not the foofy compromised ones that have been used thusfar, possible military strikes, etc.) should be our policy. [b]McCain, to his credit, seems to have a similar plan, though I simply don't have the confidence in his ability to sit down and hammer out any sort of deal[/b].[/quote]
Just as the stereotyped image of Bush's foreign diplomacy is wrong, do not let a stereotyped image of McCain convince you of untruths.

[quote]Sadly, our country, as well as most of the Western democracies we are allies with, have suffered under the Munich Syndrome for the past 60 years with no end in sight.[/quote]
The last 60 years? Hmm, so from about 1948 and prior, times were times of peace because we didn't have the Munich Syndrome? I seem to recall America's most violent times were from its founding to 1948. Much blood shed. You want to go back to that?

[quote]I do believe that Obama will kick "butt" if necessary. I think it'll take him longer to reach the point where he believes that is necessary, though.[/quote]
He will also remain committed to public funds. Yea.

I don't think he will know when is the right time to "pull the trigger" because he is so inexperienced, not just in diplomacy but in life. Much of his life has been spent surrounding himself with hateful people, not peaceful people. McCain knows firsthand the pains of war, experience none of the other candidates can match. He has the military experience and knows the thoughts and emotions of a solider. (Not every personal detail as some will accuse me of saying.)

[kujo]

Haha. I know. It's like saying "We need to meet up and hammer out an agreement about how wrong you are and how right I am. So, if you can just admit it before, that'd be great."

PM me your email address and I'll send it along. You'll need the new version of Powerpoint for it.

[kujo]

[quote name='kamiller42' post='1684750' date='Oct 24 2008, 12:45 AM']The last 60 years? Hmm, so from about 1948 and prior, times were times of peace because we didn't have the Munich Syndrome? I seem to recall America's most violent times were from its founding to 1948. Much blood shed. You want to go back to that?[/quote]

I said nothing of the sort, my friend. I was merely pointing out that everytime some adversary has popped up, people have tripped over themselves trying to compare him/her to Hitler. Read Robert McNamara's stuff on Vietnam or Dr. Phillip Zimbardo's stuff on obedience. I'm not alone in shedding this trend to light.

[quote]I don't think he will know when is the right time to "pull the trigger" because he is so inexperienced, not just in diplomacy but in life. Much of his life has been spent surrounding himself with hateful people, not peaceful people. McCain knows firsthand the pains of war, experience none of the other candidates can match. He has the military experience and knows the thoughts and emotions of a solider. (Not every personal detail as some will accuse me of saying.)[/quote]

Well, it looks like we will have to wait and see. I sincerely hope that you are wrong, but only time will tell.

[Hassan]

[quote name='kujo' post='1684754' date='Oct 23 2008, 11:49 PM']I said nothing of the sort, my friend. I was merely pointing out that everytime some adversary has popped up, people have tripped over themselves trying to compare him/her to Hitler. Read Robert McNamara's stuff on Vietnam or Dr. Phillip Zimbardo's stuff on obedience. I'm not alone in shedding this trend to light.[/quote]

Andrew Bacevich made a simmilar point in "The Limits of Power: The Ends of American Exceptionalism"

[kujo]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1684797' date='Oct 24 2008, 01:27 AM']Andrew Bacevich made a simmilar point in "The Limits of Power: The Ends of American Exceptionalism"[/quote]

It is a very well-documented theory.