dominicansoul Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1688781' date='Oct 29 2008, 01:59 PM']In 2008, where is McCain in the mix? Where does torture fit in? Where does war fit in? From my perspective, it's not as much of a slam dunk as some here want to make it out to be.[/quote] torture or the war would not exist if legal Abortion did not exist....legal abortions are the cause of all that is wrong in this country. And you are wrong to believe Obama is better than McCain when it comes to life issues... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1688793' date='Oct 29 2008, 01:37 PM']torture or the war would not exist if legal Abortion did not exist....legal abortions are the cause of all that is wrong in this country. And you are wrong to believe Obama is better than McCain when it comes to life issues...[/quote] Why have legalized abortions "caused" war and torture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrockthefirst Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1688793' date='Oct 29 2008, 02:37 PM']torture or the war would not exist if legal Abortion did not exist....legal abortions are the cause of all that is wrong in this country. And you are wrong to believe Obama is better than McCain when it comes to life issues...[/quote] I can agree with this IF you mean that the acceptance of abortion on demand as the norm indicates a disregard for human life that then also allows us to take a casual view of torture and war. I'm not suggesting that Obama is better than McCain on "life" issues; I'm suggesting that McCain is [i]not[/i] better than Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1688798' date='Oct 29 2008, 02:40 PM']Why have legalized abortions "caused" war and torture?[/quote] War is a punishment for our sins. The gravest sin caused by our nation as a whole is legalized Abortions. Peace begins in the womb. We are the worst terrorist to our own children in the womb. If our unborn citizens aren't protected, why should we be? There is cause and effect to everything we do. I can say that contraception is actually the main culprit. Contraceptive mentality has generated a grave disrespect for all life. It has caused people to objectify their partners rather than fall in love, it has caused couples to pro-create and kill at will, it has caused us to murder those whom we feel don't need to keep living. Violence begets violence. We will always be at war until we stop the war on the unborn and those whom we feel do not contain a certain "quality of life" and are deemed dispensable... So what if the war in Iraq ends? Another will begin... the main issue as always is the life issue...and this is why Obama is going to make a horrible president, because he fails to realize that the life issue is everything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1688805' date='Oct 29 2008, 01:51 PM']War is a punishment for our sins. The gravest sin caused by our nation as a whole is legalized Abortions. Peace begins in the womb. We are the worst terrorist to our own children in the womb. If our unborn citizens aren't protected, why should we be? There is cause and effect to everything we do. I can say that contraception is actually the main culprit. Contraceptive mentality has generated a grave disrespect for all life. It has caused people to objectify their partners rather than fall in love, it has caused couples to pro-create and kill at will, it has caused us to murder those whom we feel don't need to keep living. Violence begets violence. We will always be at war until we stop the war on the unborn and those whom we feel do not contain a certain "quality of life" and are deemed dispensable... So what if the war in Iraq ends? Another will begin... the main issue as always is the life issue...and this is why Obama is going to make a horrible president, because he fails to realize that the life issue is everything...[/quote] War has been with us much longer than legalized abortion, so you can't blame war in general on the specific reason. You can blame war on sin in general, specifically, original sin. But it's unfair to say that sons and daughters, mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters are off dying in Iraq because we have legalized abortion. That's no better logic than saying the reason why we are in war is because of homosexuality, like those protesters do at funerals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamiller42 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1688805' date='Oct 29 2008, 03:51 PM']War is a punishment for our sins. The gravest sin caused by our nation as a whole is legalized Abortions. Peace begins in the womb. We are the worst terrorist to our own children in the womb. If our unborn citizens aren't protected, why should we be? There is cause and effect to everything we do. I can say that contraception is actually the main culprit. Contraceptive mentality has generated a grave disrespect for all life. It has caused people to objectify their partners rather than fall in love, it has caused couples to pro-create and kill at will, it has caused us to murder those whom we feel don't need to keep living. Violence begets violence. We will always be at war until we stop the war on the unborn and those whom we feel do not contain a certain "quality of life" and are deemed dispensable... So what if the war in Iraq ends? Another will begin... the main issue as always is the life issue...and this is why Obama is going to make a horrible president, because he fails to realize that the life issue is everything...[/quote] That was beautiful. Your view of contraception's contribution to our current culture of death is spot on and too rarely heard IMO. You say "the life issue is everything." Some people cringe at that wording. I usually say "the life issue isn't everything, but it is the start of everything." Peter Kreeft put it in a similar way in the excellent mp3 that was posted a few days ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 (edited) [quote name='fidei defensor' post='1688811' date='Oct 29 2008, 02:58 PM']War has been with us much longer than legalized abortion, so you can't blame war in general on the specific reason. You can blame war on sin in general, specifically, original sin. But it's unfair to say that sons and daughters, mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters are off dying in Iraq because we have legalized abortion. That's no better logic than saying the reason why we are in war is because of homosexuality, like those protesters do at funerals.[/quote] I am not speaking of past generations. I am speaking of the PRESENT time, our generation, what we are having to face NOW, not what our ancestors faced centuries ago, or our grandparents and parents faced decades ago... Their wars were caused by sin, too... Today, we are at war because of the sin of Abortion, our nation's greatest sin...and it is totally ignored! Why wasn't it a hot button issue in all the campaigning and in the presidential debates? Why is it that our nation refuses to talk about the holocaust? Hundreds of babies are being murdered as we speak... The blood of the unborn cries out to God for vengeance. Our God is merciful, we have not yet seen the fullness of His chastisement towards man for what man has done by thinking he can create and destroy life. God is the ONLY CREATOR OF LIFE...He sees fit to give life and to take it, NOT man... It isn't unfair to say that our troops are dying over there to pay for this sin. Why are our troops over there in the first place? Is it not because we were so viciously attacked on 9/11? And why were we attacked??? We are all paying for it...but they are paying for it with their lives...and it will get worse under Obama and any man who dares to think he has the power to pass laws to take the life that God creates...Even if we have ignored the cries of these poor babies, God does not ignore them...and we will have to pay for what we have allowed to happen... ...we are on the brink of voting in a man who will see that the slaughter ruthlessly continues... ..what does that say about our nation...? And we think we don't deserve war and pestilence and diseases and economic woes??? And to get back on this here topic, the real failure of the civil rights movement is that it failed to recognize EVERYONE's right to LIFE...not just those with a certain color of skin... racial equality is one thing, but the right to life is everything... Edited October 29, 2008 by dominicansoul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrockthefirst Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1688822' date='Oct 29 2008, 04:28 PM']Today, we are at war because of the sin of Abortion, our nation's greatest sin...and it is totally ignored! Why wasn't it a hot button issue in all the campaigning and in the presidential debates? Why is it that our nation refuses to talk about the holocaust? Hundreds of babies are being murdered as we speak...[/quote] And the candidate who you deem the champion of "life" issues is just as silent on this as Obama. [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1688822' date='Oct 29 2008, 04:28 PM']It isn't unfair to say that our troops are dying over there to pay for this sin. Why are our troops over there in the first place? Is it not because we were so viciously attacked on 9/11? And why were we attacked???[/quote] Actually, we're in Iraq because of a neocon fantasy about hegemony in the Middle East to control its oil resources. 9/11 was only a flimsy excuse for launching a war of choice. Indeed, the war in Iraq in itself is a grave sin cause by man's pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 [quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1689189' date='Oct 30 2008, 07:34 AM']And the candidate who you deem the champion of "life" issues is just as silent on this as Obama. Actually, we're in Iraq because of a neocon fantasy about hegemony in the Middle East to control its oil resources. 9/11 was only a flimsy excuse for launching a war of choice. Indeed, the war in Iraq in itself is a grave sin cause by man's pride.[/quote] You need to go on McCain's web page and see what he says about his stance on life issues. I don't deny McCain will be like every other "pro-life" president and not do enough... ...but your calls that Obama is better are pretty lame when we all know that he is totally pro-death and the unborn don't stand any bit of hope with him...at least with McCain and most especially with Palin, there is hope that the laws that have been put into effect to protect the babies born alive will not be abolished... Again, thanks ken for showing your "support" for Obama...not even with the life issue you want to admit that you are wrong about Obama...McCain and Obama are NOT the same when it comes to abortion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamiller42 Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 [quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1689189' date='Oct 30 2008, 08:34 AM']Actually, we're in Iraq because of a neocon fantasy about hegemony in the Middle East to control its oil resources. 9/11 was only a flimsy excuse for launching a war of choice. Indeed, the war in Iraq in itself is a grave sin cause by man's pride.[/quote] Hegemony? Aren't you being a bit extreme? What evidence do you have that the western world, especially America, is controlling Iraq's oil? Last I saw, Iraqis are controlling Iraqi oil. If the war was strictly about oil, shouldn't we have invaded South and Central America by now since we receive much more oil from them? George Bush did not say 9/11 was the reason to invade Iraq. 9/11 was an example of what terrorism gone unchecked could do. Iraq, if left unchecked, would be a source of terrorism. George Bush gave more reasons than terrorism as justification for invading Iraq. Humanitarian reasons is one. All war is terrible because it is a failure of humanity to reconcile via peaceful means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrockthefirst Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1689196' date='Oct 30 2008, 08:13 AM']You need to go on McCain's web page and see what he says about his stance on life issues. I don't deny McCain will be like every other "pro-life" president and not do enough... ...but your calls that Obama is better are pretty lame when we all know that he is totally pro-death and the unborn don't stand any bit of hope with him...at least with McCain and most especially with Palin, there is hope that the laws that have been put into effect to protect the babies born alive will not be abolished... Again, thanks ken for showing your "support" for Obama...not even with the life issue you want to admit that you are wrong about Obama...McCain and Obama are NOT the same when it comes to abortion...[/quote] Again, I NEVER said that "Obama is better" and you cannot link to a single post of mine in which I said that. What I HAVE said, multiple times, is that "support" for Obama is a non-starter because of his stance on abortion. What I have ALSO said, multiple times, is that because I find McCain a flawed candidate who I do not support does not ipso facto translate into "support" for Obama. It is YOU who are glossing over McCain's extremely lukewarm support for "life," YOU who look the other way when McCain calls Obama a "socialist" after voting to spend $835BB on a Wall Street "bailout" and who advocates that the government buy up private mortgages, YOU who must engage in all kinds of mental gymnastics to "support" McCain. As Obama would say, let's be clear: I say a pox on both their houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 [quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1689236' date='Oct 30 2008, 10:42 AM']Again, I NEVER said that "Obama is better" and you cannot link to a single post of mine in which I said that. What I HAVE said, multiple times, is that "support" for Obama is a non-starter because of his stance on abortion. What I have ALSO said, multiple times, is that because I find McCain a flawed candidate who I do not support does not ipso facto translate into "support" for Obama. It is YOU who are glossing over McCain's extremely lukewarm support for "life," YOU who look the other way when McCain calls Obama a "socialist" after voting to spend $835BB on a Wall Street "bailout" and who advocates that the government buy up private mortgages, YOU who must engage in all kinds of mental gymnastics to "support" McCain. As Obama would say, let's be clear: I say a pox on both their houses.[/quote] But you never say anything negative about Obama, you did say it in a post that you do feel he would make a better president than McCain. I'm not having to do any sort of mental gymnastics to support McCain. I support McCain. I am doing mental gymnastics trying to understand why you can't admit Obama is worse when it comes to life issues, and why you feel you have to jump into a thread an start slamming McCain whenever someone wants to talk about Obama's policies. You do support Obama over McCain, that is absolutely clear to me and others by your posts. You may not be voting for him (I think...) but you are definitely an Obama cheerleader... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrockthefirst Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1689243' date='Oct 30 2008, 11:48 AM']But you never say anything negative about Obama, you did say it in a post that you do feel he would make a better president than McCain. I'm not having to do any sort of mental gymnastics to support McCain. I support McCain. I am doing mental gymnastics trying to understand why you can't admit Obama is worse when it comes to life issues, and why you feel you have to jump into a thread an start slamming McCain whenever someone wants to talk about Obama's policies. You do support Obama over McCain, that is absolutely clear to me and others by your posts. You may not be voting for him (I think...) but you are definitely an Obama cheerleader...[/quote] Obama is worse than McCain on life issues. In every other respect, McCain represents a continuation of the trainwreck that is the Bush administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 [quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1689298' date='Oct 30 2008, 12:19 PM']Obama is worse than McCain on life issues. In every other respect, McCain represents a continuation of the trainwreck that is the Bush administration.[/quote] The one who is worse on life issues will be worse on everything else, because without respect for life you don't get to be blessed on the rest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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