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Catholics Sold Their Vote To Obama


StMichael

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dominicansoul

[quote name='kujo' post='1695631' date='Nov 6 2008, 09:32 AM']:) You're not a stubborn ass. You're a holy woman of God...a [b]D[/b]aughter [b]O[/b]f a [b]R[/b]isen [b]K[/b]ing...[/quote]


Are you calling me a DORK?

Only you can make that something good! :love:


Thanks! I love it! :love:

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[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1695635' date='Nov 6 2008, 10:38 AM']Are you calling me a DORK?

Only you can make that something good! :love:


Thanks! I love it! :love:[/quote]

:) I'm a DWEEB

[b]D[/b]ude [b]W[/b]ith [b]E[/b]xtreme [b]E[/b]cumenical [b]B[/b]iases

That's not even true, actually...

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dominicansoul

[quote name='kujo' post='1695636' date='Nov 6 2008, 09:42 AM']:) I'm a DWEEB

[b]D[/b]ude [b]W[/b]ith [b]E[/b]xtreme [b]E[/b]cumenical [b]B[/b]iases

That's not even true, actually...[/quote]


:lol:

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[quote name='kujo' post='1695142' date='Nov 5 2008, 08:34 PM']I wondered how long it would take for you to weigh in, brother.

I think that people could be Christians with severely malformed consciences. They need evangelization, prayer and patience. I don't think they need to be labeled with loaded-terms. I don't think that helps convert their hearts or their minds.[/quote]
Many people with malformed consciences think that they are Christians, but a person cannot support a murderous and immoral agenda and be a Christian in reality.

Arius thought he was a Christian, but the Church said he was not.

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[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1695641' date='Nov 6 2008, 10:49 AM']Many people with malformed consciences think that they are Christians, but a person cannot support a murderous and immoral agenda and be a Christian in reality.

Arius thought he was a Christian, but the Church said he was not.[/quote]

Were Popes Alexander VI and Julius II Christians?

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[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1695641' date='Nov 6 2008, 10:49 AM']Many people with malformed consciences think that they are Christians, but a person cannot support a murderous and immoral agenda and be a Christian in reality.

Arius thought he was a Christian, but the Church said he was not.[/quote]

So, curious...how many sins must one commit or condone before they are NOT a Christian?

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[quote name='kujo' post='1695646' date='Nov 6 2008, 07:54 AM']So, curious...how many sins must one commit or condone before they are NOT a Christian?[/quote]
Kujo,

We are not talking simply about committing sins and repenting of them, because we all commit sins (both mortal and venial). That said, one mortal sin does cut a person off from sanctifying grace making him no longer a Christian in reality, although he may still call himself a "Christian." Now of course such a person can repent, confess, and receive absolution and be restored to the Church. But in the present case, which you seem to be experiencing difficulty in grasping, we are not simply talking about a person who commits a sin (mortal or venial) and then repents of it, but about a person who has embraced a non-Christian ideology (e.g., the legal promotion of the murder of the innocent, promotion of sodomy as the equivalent of marriage, etc.). Now, if a man embraces a viewpoint that is contrary to the moral law, and promotes that viewpoint as a "good," he is no longer a Christian, because he does not follow Christ's teaching, nor does he have a living relationship with the Lord. In place of the Christian faith he has embraced a lie, a lie inspired by the Father of Lies, and rather than telling him something that is politically correct (i.e., that it is okay to support an immoral agenda), we should -- as Catholics -- boldly speak the truth and pray for his conversion.

Edited by Apotheoun
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[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1695653' date='Nov 6 2008, 11:02 AM']Kujo,

We are not talking simply about committing sins and repenting of them, because we all commit sins (both mortal and venial). That said, one mortal sin does cut a person off from sanctifying grace making him no longer a Christian in reality, although he may still call himself a "Christian." But of course such a person can repent, confess, and receive absolution and be restored to the Church. But in the present case, which you seem to be experiencing difficulty in grasping, we are not simply talking about a person who commits a sin (mortal or venial) and then repents of it, but about a person who has embraced a non-Christian ideology (e.g., the legal promotion of the murder of the innocent, promotion of sodomy as the equivalent of marriage, etc.). Now, if a man embraces a viewpoint that is contrary to the moral law, and promotes that viewpoint as a "good," he is no longer a Christian, because he does not follow Christ's teaching, nor does he have a living relationship with the Lord. In place of the Christian faith he has embraced a lie, a lie inspired by the Father of Lies, and rather than tell him something that is politically correct (i.e., that it is okay to support an immoral agenda), we should -- as Catholics -- boldly speak the truth and pray for his conversion.[/quote]

So, your answer to my question is the support of abortion and "gay marriage."

Anything else?

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[quote name='kujo' post='1695656' date='Nov 6 2008, 08:05 AM']So, your answer to my question is the support of abortion and "gay marriage."

Anything else?[/quote]
I gave two examples, but you should have been able to infer from my post that support for anything that is contrary to the natural moral law, sacred scripture, or the dogmatic decrees of the Church, cuts one off from salvation.

Salvation is about metanioa (conversion of heart) whereby a man embraces Christ and His teaching in full.

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TotusTuusMaria

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1695653' date='Nov 6 2008, 12:02 PM']Kujo,

We are not talking simply about committing sins and repenting of them, because we all commit sins (both mortal and venial). That said, one mortal sin does cut a person off from sanctifying grace making him no longer a Christian in reality, although he may still call himself a "Christian." Now of course such a person can repent, confess, and receive absolution and be restored to the Church. But in the present case, which you seem to be experiencing difficulty in grasping, we are not simply talking about a person who commits a sin (mortal or venial) and then repents of it, but about a person who has embraced a non-Christian ideology (e.g., the legal promotion of the murder of the innocent, promotion of sodomy as the equivalent of marriage, etc.). Now, if a man embraces a viewpoint that is contrary to the moral law, and promotes that viewpoint as a "good," he is no longer a Christian, because he does not follow Christ's teaching, nor does he have a living relationship with the Lord. In place of the Christian faith he has embraced a lie, a lie inspired by the Father of Lies, and rather than telling him something that is politically correct (i.e., that it is okay to support an immoral agenda), we should -- as Catholics -- boldly speak the truth and pray for his conversion.[/quote]


I don't think this could have possibly been said any better.

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TotusTuusMaria

And Kujo, you claimed that Obama somewhere professed that Jesus Christ was his Lord and Savior. Where did he do this? I am reading and researching and I am not seeing where he ever did this. Actually, he has avoided saying that in the interviews about his faith. He will not say that.

So now, what makes him a Christian again? He has never said he believes in Christ as his savior nor has he said he believes the teachings of Christ.

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