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Josh

Why Did Satan Hate God So Much ?

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Ziggamafu
I like the theory that Satan presumed enough wisdom (that's pride issue; thinking himself wiser than God) to condemn God's choice to create intelligent life. The idea is that Satan thinks that God had no right, merely for the sake of His own generous wants, to create truly free beings that, being utterly dependent on God as the source and standard of life, beauty, pleasure, and goodness, could therefore risk eternal torture by freely choosing against God's will. This explains why Satan and those angels in agreement with him would wage war with God; knowing God to be omnipotent - well, God - they obviously knew that a literal defeat was impossible. They aimed for a moral defeat that would justify their position and give them what they wanted; nonexistence. Their goal was to get God to "take back" their existence, which they disagreed with in the first place. Of course, to do that would be an admission by God that He was wrong, which of course is impossible. Hence Hell.

Satan now stands opposed to everything God stands for; pro-destruction, pro-death, pro-nonexistence, trying to keep God from getting what Satan thinks that, in principle, He has no right to in the first place. (So the theory goes).

I forget where I first ran into this idea, but apparently it is found in Chesterton and some of the mystic saints. It makes sense to me so I run with it. ;-)

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Didacus
Have either of you read 'De Casu Diaboli'? By hanslem of Canteburry?

Brilliant text explaining the cause of the devil's fall.

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CatherineM
I think he just hated not being in charge. There are some people that just can't stand the idea of obedience. It's about pride, greed, lust, but still about not wanting to be told what to do.

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WillT
[quote name='Didacus' post='1786351' date='Feb 20 2009, 12:13 PM']Have either of you read 'De Casu Diaboli'? By hanslem of Canteburry?

Brilliant text explaining the cause of the devil's fall.[/quote]
I don't think I'm familiar with "hanslem of Canteburry." Is he any relation to Anselm of Canterbury? ;)

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eagle_eye222001
[quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1786261' date='Feb 20 2009, 08:50 AM']I like the theory that Satan presumed enough wisdom (that's pride issue; thinking himself wiser than God) to condemn God's choice to create intelligent life. The idea is that Satan thinks that God had no right, merely for the sake of His own generous wants, to create truly free beings that, being utterly dependent on God as the source and standard of life, beauty, pleasure, and goodness, could therefore risk eternal torture by freely choosing against God's will. This explains why Satan and those angels in agreement with him would wage war with God; knowing God to be omnipotent - well, God - they obviously knew that a literal defeat was impossible. They aimed for a moral defeat that would justify their position and give them what they wanted; nonexistence. Their goal was to get God to "take back" their existence, which they disagreed with in the first place. Of course, to do that would be an admission by God that He was wrong, which of course is impossible. Hence Hell.

Satan now stands opposed to everything God stands for; pro-destruction, pro-death, pro-nonexistence, trying to keep God from getting what Satan thinks that, in principle, He has no right to in the first place. (So the theory goes).

I forget where I first ran into this idea, but apparently it is found in Chesterton and some of the mystic saints. It makes sense to me so I run with it. ;-)[/quote]

It sounds.........reasonable. I like it.

[quote name='Didacus' post='1786351' date='Feb 20 2009, 11:13 AM']Have either of you read 'De Casu Diaboli'? By hanslem of Canteburry?

Brilliant text explaining the cause of the devil's fall.[/quote]

I might have to read that.

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Josh
[quote name='Ziggamafu' post='1786261' date='Feb 20 2009, 09:50 AM']I like the theory that Satan presumed enough wisdom (that's pride issue; thinking himself wiser than God) to condemn God's choice to create intelligent life. The idea is that Satan thinks that God had no right, merely for the sake of His own generous wants, to create truly free beings that, being utterly dependent on God as the source and standard of life, beauty, pleasure, and goodness, could therefore risk eternal torture by freely choosing against God's will. This explains why Satan and those angels in agreement with him would wage war with God; knowing God to be omnipotent - well, God - they obviously knew that a literal defeat was impossible. They aimed for a moral defeat that would justify their position and give them what they wanted; nonexistence. Their goal was to get God to "take back" their existence, which they disagreed with in the first place. Of course, to do that would be an admission by God that He was wrong, which of course is impossible. Hence Hell.

Satan now stands opposed to everything God stands for; pro-destruction, pro-death, pro-nonexistence, trying to keep God from getting what Satan thinks that, in principle, He has no right to in the first place. (So the theory goes).

I forget where I first ran into this idea, but apparently it is found in Chesterton and some of the mystic saints. It makes sense to me so I run with it. ;-)[/quote]


That makes sence. Thanks Ziggamafu


[quote name='Didacus' post='1786351' date='Feb 20 2009, 12:13 PM']Have either of you read 'De Casu Diaboli'? By hanslem of Canteburry?

Brilliant text explaining the cause of the devil's fall.[/quote]

Thanks Didacus


[quote name='CatherineM' post='1786404' date='Feb 20 2009, 01:57 PM']I think he just hated not being in charge. There are some people that just can't stand the idea of obedience. It's about pride, greed, lust, but still about not wanting to be told what to do.[/quote]

Ya true

[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1786715' date='Feb 20 2009, 09:13 PM']Maybe because he couldn't accept the idea that God's love wasn't exclusive to himself.[/quote]

And that's probally why he hates us so much. (the devil) Edited by Delivery Boy

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Josh
So another thing I wonder is why satan took it this far ?
I mean why not chill out since he was going up against God ?
Did satan violate God morally or was this all just over humans ?
As smart as satan was or is, you would think at some point he would of repented and tried to make peace with God ?
I wonder at what point it was to late to not turn around and look back ? Edited by Delivery Boy

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nunsense
[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1786755' date='Feb 20 2009, 06:40 PM']So another thing I wonder is why satan took it this far ?
I mean why not chill out since he was going up against God ?
Did satan violate God morally or was this all just over humans ?
As smart as satan was or is, you would think at some point he would of repented and tried to make peace with God ?
I wonder at what point it was to late to not turn around and look back ?[/quote]


I'm no expert at all, but I read that angels make their decisions once and for all time irrevocably because they possess their knowledge of all sides of the argument all at once and therefore don't have second thoughts about their decisions like we do. Someone better trained in theology could explain this better though. That does explain why Satan can't change his mind - he has already considered all arguments pro and con, and his decision was made once and for all - end of story.

I do think it is sad, but I trust in God to know what He is doing.

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Saint Therese
I don't feel sad for Satan. No offense, but that's crazy.
He's a murderer from the beginning, according to the Lord. He deserves not our pity.

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Josh
[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1787745' date='Feb 22 2009, 12:31 AM']I don't feel sad for Satan. No offense, but that's crazy.
He's a murderer from the beginning, according to the Lord. He deserves not our pity.[/quote]

I agree.

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nunsense
[quote name='Saint Therese' post='1787745' date='Feb 21 2009, 09:31 PM']I don't feel sad for Satan. No offense, but that's crazy.
He's a murderer from the beginning, according to the Lord. He deserves not our pity.[/quote]

You misunderstood what I wrote. I didn't say I was sad FOR Satan. I said I was sad. I am sad that everyone doesn't love God as He deserves to be loved and adored and worshipped. That is why I am sad. Satan made his choice once and for all time. To me, it is sad that one of God's creatures (one who had such potential for beauty) should defy Him and hate Him. But that is also why I said that God knows what He is doing -- in allowing such choices to be made through free will.

I am also sad about people in this world who don't know God's love, or who know, but reject it. At least with humans, where there is life, there is always the possibility of repentence and forgiveness, so our prayers are always needed for each other. :pray:

I don't think it is unreasonable to be sad because even God can be sad at the behavior of His creatures (remember that St Paul said not to make the Holy Spirit sad). Maybe I just didn't express myself well enough though. :unsure:

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Josh
[quote name='nunsense' post='1787899' date='Feb 22 2009, 02:48 AM']You misunderstood what I wrote. I didn't say I was sad FOR Satan. I said I was sad. I am sad that everyone doesn't love God as He deserves to be loved and adored and worshipped. That is why I am sad. Satan made his choice once and for all time. To me, it is sad that one of God's creatures (one who had such potential for beauty) should defy Him and hate Him. But that is also why I said that God knows what He is doing -- in allowing such choices to be made through free will.

I am also sad about people in this world who don't know God's love, or who know, but reject it. At least with humans, where there is life, there is always the possibility of repentence and forgiveness, so our prayers are always needed for each other. :pray:

I don't think it is unreasonable to be sad because even God can be sad at the behavior of His creatures (remember that St Paul said not to make the Holy Spirit sad). Maybe I just didn't express myself well enough though. :unsure:[/quote]

I see and feel where you're coming from.
I dont know how satan could do what he did though.
I want to hate him for it but I know were not supposed to. (I think)
I know satan hates me though and wants me dead.
So I want to hate him to. Why did he do what he did ?
And put all of us through this ****.
But it is sad you're right.
Godbless.

*edidt*

usually I dont write *edit* when I come back but I feel I have to this time.

My post above shows how selfish I am.
I should have wrote I want to hate him for what he put our Lord Jesus Christ through.
It's sick and I hate that Jesus had to do what he did because of satan.
And for that I want to hate satan. Edited by Delivery Boy

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