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Why Did Satan Hate God So Much ?


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#1 Josh

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 05:37 AM

?

#2 Didacus

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 06:10 AM

He preferred himself via his own pride rather than God.

#3 Ziggamafu

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 07:50 AM

I like the theory that Satan presumed enough wisdom (that's pride issue; thinking himself wiser than God) to condemn God's choice to create intelligent life. The idea is that Satan thinks that God had no right, merely for the sake of His own generous wants, to create truly free beings that, being utterly dependent on God as the source and standard of life, beauty, pleasure, and goodness, could therefore risk eternal torture by freely choosing against God's will. This explains why Satan and those angels in agreement with him would wage war with God; knowing God to be omnipotent - well, God - they obviously knew that a literal defeat was impossible. They aimed for a moral defeat that would justify their position and give them what they wanted; nonexistence. Their goal was to get God to "take back" their existence, which they disagreed with in the first place. Of course, to do that would be an admission by God that He was wrong, which of course is impossible. Hence Hell.

Satan now stands opposed to everything God stands for; pro-destruction, pro-death, pro-nonexistence, trying to keep God from getting what Satan thinks that, in principle, He has no right to in the first place. (So the theory goes).

I forget where I first ran into this idea, but apparently it is found in Chesterton and some of the mystic saints. It makes sense to me so I run with it. ;-)

#4 Didacus

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 10:13 AM

Have either of you read 'De Casu Diaboli'? By hanslem of Canteburry?

Brilliant text explaining the cause of the devil's fall.

#5 CatherineM

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 11:57 AM

I think he just hated not being in charge. There are some people that just can't stand the idea of obedience. It's about pride, greed, lust, but still about not wanting to be told what to do.

#6 WillT

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 02:13 PM

Have either of you read 'De Casu Diaboli'? By hanslem of Canteburry?

Brilliant text explaining the cause of the devil's fall.

I don't think I'm familiar with "hanslem of Canteburry." Is he any relation to Anselm of Canterbury? ;)

#7 eagle_eye222001

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 03:27 PM

I like the theory that Satan presumed enough wisdom (that's pride issue; thinking himself wiser than God) to condemn God's choice to create intelligent life. The idea is that Satan thinks that God had no right, merely for the sake of His own generous wants, to create truly free beings that, being utterly dependent on God as the source and standard of life, beauty, pleasure, and goodness, could therefore risk eternal torture by freely choosing against God's will. This explains why Satan and those angels in agreement with him would wage war with God; knowing God to be omnipotent - well, God - they obviously knew that a literal defeat was impossible. They aimed for a moral defeat that would justify their position and give them what they wanted; nonexistence. Their goal was to get God to "take back" their existence, which they disagreed with in the first place. Of course, to do that would be an admission by God that He was wrong, which of course is impossible. Hence Hell.

Satan now stands opposed to everything God stands for; pro-destruction, pro-death, pro-nonexistence, trying to keep God from getting what Satan thinks that, in principle, He has no right to in the first place. (So the theory goes).

I forget where I first ran into this idea, but apparently it is found in Chesterton and some of the mystic saints. It makes sense to me so I run with it. ;-)


It sounds.........reasonable. I like it.

Have either of you read 'De Casu Diaboli'? By hanslem of Canteburry?

Brilliant text explaining the cause of the devil's fall.


I might have to read that.

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#8 Saint Therese

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 07:13 PM

Maybe because he couldn't accept the idea that God's love wasn't exclusive to himself.

#9 Josh

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 07:37 PM

I like the theory that Satan presumed enough wisdom (that's pride issue; thinking himself wiser than God) to condemn God's choice to create intelligent life. The idea is that Satan thinks that God had no right, merely for the sake of His own generous wants, to create truly free beings that, being utterly dependent on God as the source and standard of life, beauty, pleasure, and goodness, could therefore risk eternal torture by freely choosing against God's will. This explains why Satan and those angels in agreement with him would wage war with God; knowing God to be omnipotent - well, God - they obviously knew that a literal defeat was impossible. They aimed for a moral defeat that would justify their position and give them what they wanted; nonexistence. Their goal was to get God to "take back" their existence, which they disagreed with in the first place. Of course, to do that would be an admission by God that He was wrong, which of course is impossible. Hence Hell.

Satan now stands opposed to everything God stands for; pro-destruction, pro-death, pro-nonexistence, trying to keep God from getting what Satan thinks that, in principle, He has no right to in the first place. (So the theory goes).

I forget where I first ran into this idea, but apparently it is found in Chesterton and some of the mystic saints. It makes sense to me so I run with it. ;-)



That makes sence. Thanks Ziggamafu


Have either of you read 'De Casu Diaboli'? By hanslem of Canteburry?

Brilliant text explaining the cause of the devil's fall.


Thanks Didacus


I think he just hated not being in charge. There are some people that just can't stand the idea of obedience. It's about pride, greed, lust, but still about not wanting to be told what to do.


Ya true

Maybe because he couldn't accept the idea that God's love wasn't exclusive to himself.


And that's probally why he hates us so much. (the devil)

Edited by Delivery Boy, 20 February 2009 - 07:38 PM.


#10 Josh

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 07:40 PM

So another thing I wonder is why satan took it this far ?
I mean why not chill out since he was going up against God ?
Did satan violate God morally or was this all just over humans ?
As smart as satan was or is, you would think at some point he would of repented and tried to make peace with God ?
I wonder at what point it was to late to not turn around and look back ?

Edited by Delivery Boy, 20 February 2009 - 07:41 PM.


#11 nunsense

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 02:33 PM

So another thing I wonder is why satan took it this far ?
I mean why not chill out since he was going up against God ?
Did satan violate God morally or was this all just over humans ?
As smart as satan was or is, you would think at some point he would of repented and tried to make peace with God ?
I wonder at what point it was to late to not turn around and look back ?



I'm no expert at all, but I read that angels make their decisions once and for all time irrevocably because they possess their knowledge of all sides of the argument all at once and therefore don't have second thoughts about their decisions like we do. Someone better trained in theology could explain this better though. That does explain why Satan can't change his mind - he has already considered all arguments pro and con, and his decision was made once and for all - end of story.

I do think it is sad, but I trust in God to know what He is doing.

#12 Saint Therese

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 10:31 PM

I don't feel sad for Satan. No offense, but that's crazy.
He's a murderer from the beginning, according to the Lord. He deserves not our pity.

#13 Josh

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Posted 21 February 2009 - 11:54 PM

I don't feel sad for Satan. No offense, but that's crazy.
He's a murderer from the beginning, according to the Lord. He deserves not our pity.


I agree.

#14 nunsense

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 12:48 AM

I don't feel sad for Satan. No offense, but that's crazy.
He's a murderer from the beginning, according to the Lord. He deserves not our pity.


You misunderstood what I wrote. I didn't say I was sad FOR Satan. I said I was sad. I am sad that everyone doesn't love God as He deserves to be loved and adored and worshipped. That is why I am sad. Satan made his choice once and for all time. To me, it is sad that one of God's creatures (one who had such potential for beauty) should defy Him and hate Him. But that is also why I said that God knows what He is doing -- in allowing such choices to be made through free will.

I am also sad about people in this world who don't know God's love, or who know, but reject it. At least with humans, where there is life, there is always the possibility of repentence and forgiveness, so our prayers are always needed for each other. :pray:

I don't think it is unreasonable to be sad because even God can be sad at the behavior of His creatures (remember that St Paul said not to make the Holy Spirit sad). Maybe I just didn't express myself well enough though. :unsure:

#15 Josh

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 01:46 AM

You misunderstood what I wrote. I didn't say I was sad FOR Satan. I said I was sad. I am sad that everyone doesn't love God as He deserves to be loved and adored and worshipped. That is why I am sad. Satan made his choice once and for all time. To me, it is sad that one of God's creatures (one who had such potential for beauty) should defy Him and hate Him. But that is also why I said that God knows what He is doing -- in allowing such choices to be made through free will.

I am also sad about people in this world who don't know God's love, or who know, but reject it. At least with humans, where there is life, there is always the possibility of repentence and forgiveness, so our prayers are always needed for each other. :pray:

I don't think it is unreasonable to be sad because even God can be sad at the behavior of His creatures (remember that St Paul said not to make the Holy Spirit sad). Maybe I just didn't express myself well enough though. :unsure:


I see and feel where you're coming from.
I dont know how satan could do what he did though.
I want to hate him for it but I know were not supposed to. (I think)
I know satan hates me though and wants me dead.
So I want to hate him to. Why did he do what he did ?
And put all of us through this ****.
But it is sad you're right.
Godbless.

*edidt*

usually I dont write *edit* when I come back but I feel I have to this time.

My post above shows how selfish I am.
I should have wrote I want to hate him for what he put our Lord Jesus Christ through.
It's sick and I hate that Jesus had to do what he did because of satan.
And for that I want to hate satan.

Edited by Delivery Boy, 22 February 2009 - 01:50 AM.


#16 nunsense

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 02:01 AM

I see and feel where you're coming from.
I dont know how satan could do what he did though.
I want to hate him for it but I know were not supposed to. (I think)
I know satan hates me though and want's me dead.
So I want to hate him to. Why did he do what he did ?
And all of us through this ****.
But it is sad you're right.
Godbless.

*edidt*

usually I dont write *edit* when I come back but I feel I have to this time.

My post above shows how selfish I am.
I should have wrote I want to hate him for what he put our Lord Jesus Christ through.
It's sick and I hate that Jesus had to do what he did because of satan.
And for that I want to hate satan.



You aren't selfish - just human. But hate is Satan's weapon. Love is Jesus' weapon. We can hate sin --- but not sinners - remember that Jesus even forgave those who crucified Him.

Satan may provide the temptation, but man chooses to commit the sin, so it is our sins that caused Jesus' suffering and put Him to death. He did it willingly, out of love for us all, because He wanted to redeem us.

All our focus should be on loving Jesus, and not on hating Satan. If we spend our time adoring Jesus, and loving Him and giving Him thanks with all our heart and soul, then there is no room for the evil one. After all, Satan is nothing. Jesus is Our Lord and God, Our Redeemer and Savior - only He deserves our attention.

That is why I say the sadness is for God not being loved, rather than for Satan -- he had his choice, he made it. Now, our choice is always before us - to love Our Lord with all our heart and all our soul and all our strength, and to love each other as He loved us.

:love:

#17 Josh

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 02:06 AM

Ok I agree with what you say except for the part about it being our fault for sin.
I sorta agree with this but not really. If satan wouldn't have tempted us we wouldnt have fell.
If we didn't fall Jesus wouldn't have had to come here and die the way he did.
I believe in the cross and I believe in what Jesus did for us on the cross.
I always want to be reminded of the cross and I never wan't to forget it.
But not for one minute do I think it's ok that Jesus had to die that way.
I dont hate no human being. I dont anyone anyone who sins even if it's against me.
But for me not to hate satan is pretty tough. Satan hated me first before I did anything to him.
God tells us to love our enemies so I guess I am called to love all my enemies.
But still love is expressed in many different ways. Love isnt always smiles and hugs.
What satan did was sick and twisted and I hope he suffers every single moment in his eternal punishment.

Edited by Delivery Boy, 22 February 2009 - 02:07 AM.


#18 nunsense

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 02:20 AM

Ok I agree with what you say except for the part about it being our fault for sin.
I sorta agree with this but not really. If satan wouldn't have tempted us we wouldnt have fell.
If we didn't fall Jesus wouldn't have had to come here and die the way he did.
I believe in the cross and I believe in what Jesus did for us on the cross.
I always want to be reminded of the cross and I never wan't to forget it.
But not for one minute do I think it's ok that Jesus had to die that way.
I dont hate no human being. I dont anyone anyone who sins even if it's against me.
But for me not to hate satan is pretty tough. Satan hated me first before I did anything to him.
God tells us to love our enemies so I guess I am called to love all my enemies.
But still love is expressed in many different ways. Love isnt always smiles and hugs.
What satan did was sick and twisted and I hope he suffers every single moment in his eternal punishment.


I understand that you are sharing in Christ's suffering, and that is a beautiful thing. For us to embrace the Cross is truly loving Jesus. But to allow your heart to fill with hate for anyone or anything actually dishonors Jesus in a way - because His whole message was one of love. That is not to say that you have to love Satan - absolutely not. But even St Michael would not rebuke him - that is why in the prayer to St Michael we ask God to rebuke Satan - so, if it isn't appropriate for St Michael to do it - it certainly is not appropriate for us to do it either. We can ask that God thrust him into hell along with all his evil spirits, but we mustn't carry hate in our hearts towards him (and thus do him honor). Any time we use one of Satan's weapons, we are honoring him - that is why lying is so bad - he is the Prince of Lies, whereas Our Lord Jesus is the Truth Incarnate. Every lie honors Satan, every act of hatred honors him. As disciples of Jesus, we honor Our Lord through loving obedience to His Will.

You are right in that love is expressed in many ways. Once I asked a priest how I could love my neighbors, when the man was a convicted child molester (recently released from prison) and his "wife" was a bigamist. The priest told me that compassion is also a form of love, and certainly I should have compassion for such people. This helped me a lot. So I am not saying that any of us should feel any love towards Satan - but neither should we allow ourselve to be consumed by hatred either. Jesus is God. He knew what He was doing when He created the universe, and Satan, and us, and allowed free will in his creatures. He also knew what He was doing whan He offered Himself as a sacrifical lamb for our salvation. His Cross was His greatest triumph, and through it, He has given meaning to all mankind's sufferings. Should we feel pain at His suffering? Yes. Should we excuse our own sins by blaming Satan? No. We are sinners in our hearts, but are saved sinners, through Our Lord. And He did this through His suffering and His Cross. Feel His pain, but also rejoice at His triumph over death and Satan!

#19 kafka

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 02:24 AM

alright I see I need to step in. Just give me a moment

#20 nunsense

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 02:28 AM

I really have to get some sleep but I will check in tomorrow to see your post kafka. Thank you.




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