four_waters Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) Hello everyone, I was curious if anyone here may know of any good Carmelite communities for men, besides perhaps the monks in Wyoming. Thank you for your input! Edited October 23, 2009 by four_waters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHisLove726 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 There are a few communities in the US. Which are you interested in--active friars or hermits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Here are some friars in California. http://www.discalcedcarmelites.com/houses.html There are many communities across the US - any particular state? Also, are you looking for OCarms or Discalced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aalpha1989 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 www.carmelitemonks.org They're in Wyoming. They use the Carmelite Rite. They're pretty awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four_waters Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) [quote name='InHisLove726' date='23 October 2009 - 11:16 AM' timestamp='1256310982' post='1990249'] Which are you interested in--active friars or hermits? [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img] [/quote] In a few sentances, I would say; any communities that strive to live more in the spirit of their founders (that is, a more strict contemplative/eremetical life), and perhaps offer the Extraordinary Form (I tend to consider this is an indicator of their conformity to the mind of the pope). ...even if it's just one friar starting up a new community, I would be interested. Though the founder must be a living saint. Thank you in advance for any input. Edited October 23, 2009 by four_waters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHisLove726 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 [quote name='four_waters' date='23 October 2009 - 12:45 PM' timestamp='1256316332' post='1990292'] In a few sentances, I would say; any communities that strive to live more in the spirit of their founders (that is, a more strict contemplative/eremetical life), and perhaps offer the Extraordinary Form (I tend to consider this is an indicator of their conformity to the mind of the pope). ...even if it's just one friar starting up a new community, I would be interested. Though the founder must be a living saint. [/quote] I would suggest the Carmelite Hermits of the Blessed Virgin Mary in Lake Elmo, MN. Their Mass might be what you are looking for as evidenced by this picture from their website: [img]http://www.decorcarmeli.com/images/Liturgy.jpg[/img] Here is their full website: http://www.decorcarmeli.com/Hermits.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aalpha1989 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) [quote name='four_waters' date='23 October 2009 - 12:45 PM' timestamp='1256316332' post='1990292'] In a few sentances, I would say; any communities that strive to live more in the spirit of their founders (that is, a more strict contemplative/eremetical life), and perhaps offer the Extraordinary Form (I tend to consider this is an indicator of their conformity to the mind of the pope). ...even if it's just one friar starting up a new community, I would be interested. Though the founder must be a living saint. Thank you in advance for any input. [/quote] The prior at Carmel of the Immaculate Heart in Wyoming was the subprior at Lake Elmo before he left to found the Carmel in Wyoming at the request of Bishop Ricken. The Carmel in Wyoming was founded for the purpose of more closely following the spirituality of Ss. Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross. It uses the Carmelite Rite (abandoned by the discalced Carmelites shortly after St. Teresa's death, but used by the calced communities until the 1970's). It is strictly cloistered, but they do maintain a balance between community life and seclusion. Because it is a young community they don't currently have any hermits, but as soon as they can they look to have around 8. The Carmelite Rite is the most beautiful Mass I have ever seen. The Salve Regina is part of the Mass, it comes directly after Communion and before the Ite. During the consecration, the priest extends his arms in cruciform while gazing upon the crucifix for greater identification with Christ on the cross. It is ad orientem (obviously), and is different in a few ways from the Extraordinary Form. It is equally as reverent. Father Prior is a living saint. oh, oops. I just saw that you said "besides the ones in Wyoming". Sorry about that... Edited October 23, 2009 by aalpha1989 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four_waters Posted October 24, 2009 Author Share Posted October 24, 2009 [quote name='aalpha1989' date='23 October 2009 - 01:53 PM' timestamp='1256320431' post='1990316'] oh, oops. I just saw that you said "besides the ones in Wyoming". Sorry about that... [/quote] Yes, thank you though. I do think they are a solid community, and was very impressed with them when I visited a few years ago. However, for some reason, I never felt I could submit myself in obedience to the prior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zunshynn Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 [quote name='four_waters' date='23 October 2009 - 10:45 AM' timestamp='1256316332' post='1990292'] Though the founder must be a living saint. [/quote] That might be an unrealistic stipulation to make... religious life is not about finding perfect, holy people to live with, because living with them probably won't make you holy. Most of the time it is about being an imperfect person yourself, living with other imperfect people with the common goal of STRIVING for sainthood, which often happens by dealing with the faults of others with heroic virtue. It's hard for virtue to become heroic if you avoid being around people that aren't, in your opinion, "holy". I've heard it said that if you want go searching for the perfect community, and you actually find it, there won't be anyone in it, and once you join, it won't be perfect anymore. A community could be founded by someone who does not seem particularly holy during his lifetime... like Philip Neri, for example. Everyone thought he was nuts. But he WAS holy. They just didn't realize it when he was right in front of them. And there have been communities who believed their founder was a living saint, and then find out later that they were vastly different from what the community held him up to be. It's best not to try to canonize someone before their time. And to realize that ultimately, your sanctity does not depend on being under St. Therese became very holy under obedience to an abbess that was far from what one would think was a living saint. Any good, elderly religious will tell you its the perseverance that counts. That's why even when they've been in religious life for 50 years, they still pray for the grace of perseverence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four_waters Posted November 1, 2009 Author Share Posted November 1, 2009 (edited) Dear zunshynn, Grace and peace to you. I should have clarified myself (I do apologize, as I easily forget how important it is to be clear when writing on forums). What I meant by the founder having to be a living saint was in regards to new communities. Usually it seems, if the founder is not a living saint, then the community will not flourish. History seems to give evidence of this (the founder has great influence on the community). Certainly sanctity begets sanctity, as we have seen in the lives of many of the saints (who many times even had saintly spiritual directors). But you bring up a certain truth, in the imperfect judgement of men, who believe their founder to be saints when they are not, and vs. This is why I am interested in investigating any new communities that are now being formed, even if its just one or two men. Although I am not certain, it doesn't seem unreasonable to believe there is now at least one living saint here in America, hidden to the world, and even to religious. I certainly do not merit the grace to be given such a gift of a saintly soul to look up to, but I nonetheless pray for it just the same (as if I could discern the saintliness of character!). I do appreciate your observation that no community is perfect (which cannot be emphasized enough, especially to those who are new to this way, who may have romantic ideals of religious life). Every community has its faults, but one thing I have come to believe is that it is very difficult to become holy onself, if one does not have other guides to look up to in the religious life (I hardly can place that much confidence myself!). Saint Theresa lamented over this, that she wasted so many years of her life because she had not a guide on earth to help her. Saint Faustina said that there is no greater gift that God can give to a soul than a holy spiritual director, and it took her over 7 years of continual prayer to be given such a gift! Of course she was speaking only in terms of spiritual directors, but I believe the principle holds true just the same; that sanctity breeds sanctity. It seems to me that it is only in rare cases that a soul can, through shear will and an extraordinary grace from God, become a saint through their own efforts and prayers alone. In any case, I have digressed too much! Please God I hope I have not overstepped my bounds. I hope you will correct me if I have. I should really like to know if there are other male communities that you might recommend to me. I would most certainly appreciate any information you could provide me. Edited November 1, 2009 by four_waters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four_waters Posted November 1, 2009 Author Share Posted November 1, 2009 (edited) [quote name='InHisLove726' date='23 October 2009 - 01:01 PM' timestamp='1256317305' post='1990298'] I would suggest the Carmelite Hermits of the Blessed Virgin Mary in Lake Elmo, MN. Their Mass might be what you are looking for as evidenced by this picture from their website: [img]http://www.decorcarmeli.com/images/Liturgy.jpg[/img] Here is their full website: [url="http://www.decorcarmeli.com/Hermits.htm"]http://www.decorcarm...com/Hermits.htm[/url] [/quote] Dear InHisLove, Grace and peace to you. Thank you so much for this reference. I will most certainly include them on my list of communities to visit this year. If you have any further recommendations, I would be most thankfull to you. Again, thank you. Edited November 1, 2009 by four_waters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 (edited) If you are into the Latin Mass, you could check out the [url="http://fssp.com/press/"][u]The Priestly Fraternity of St Peter [/u](FSSP)[/url] Edited November 1, 2009 by nunsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHisLove726 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 [quote name='four_waters' date='01 November 2009 - 08:07 AM' timestamp='1257080875' post='1994763'] Dear InHisLove, Grace and peace to you. Thank you so much for this reference. I will most certainly include them on my list of communities to visit this year. If you have any further recommendations, I would be most thankfull to you. Again, thank you. [/quote] It's my pleasure. I'll be on the lookout for other communities, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four_waters Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) [quote name='nunsense' date='01 November 2009 - 09:50 AM' timestamp='1257083418' post='1994773'] If you are into the Latin Mass, you could check out the [url="http://fssp.com/press/"][u]The Priestly Fraternity of St Peter [/u](FSSP)[/url] [/quote] Dear nunsense, Grace and peace to you. I do love the Extraordinary Form of the mass, as our pope does too. However, it is not a prerequisite for me. While it is generally a good indicator of a communities fidelity to the pope if they offer this mass, it is not always the case. I have seen the pendulum swing both ways (since human nature tends toward extremes), that is; communities that offer exclusively the Extraordinary Form can have members who tend to scrupulosity and rigidity, while communities who ignore the pope's encouragement to offer the Extraordinary Form usually have members who tend to laxity and liberality in the rule (which seems to be of the more common evil today). Thank you for your suggestion of the FSSP, but I am more interested in orders that are traditionally cloistered contemplative, specifically the Carmelites (or perhaps Saint Faustina's congregation for men, if one exists yet). Please keep your suggestions coming. I am most interested to know what else is out there that you would recommend. Please God I have relied on myself for far too long. Edited November 2, 2009 by four_waters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laetitia crucis Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 [quote name='four_waters' date='02 November 2009 - 10:45 AM' timestamp='1257173132' post='1995202'] ... Thank you for your suggestion of the FSSP, but I am more interested in orders that are traditionally cloistered contemplative, specifically the Carmelites (or perhaps Saint Faustina's congregation for men, if one exists yet). Please keep your suggestions coming. I am most interested to know what else is out there that you would recommend. Please God I have relied on myself for far too long. [/quote] Hi four_waters! I know you've said that you're looking for traditionally cloistered contemplative orders, specifically Carmelite; however, I thought I'd pass along another possibility that I came across. The [url="http://marymediatrix.com"]Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate[/url] have a contemplative branch of friars. They are a relatively newer order, but are definitely in the heart of the Church. They're amazing on so many levels. However, I think right now their contemplative friars are only in Italy/Tuscany (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) -- though in a great monastery where many canonized saints have dwelt. The only thing I could really find online that was related was [url="http://airmaria.com/2007/12/01/fi-news-first-contemplative-house-opening-in-italy/"]this article[/url] -- Convento del Bosco ai Frati. And [url="http://airmaria.com/?sn=22&vp=956&prefx=rovr&plyrnb=1&ttl=Roving%20Reporter"]this video[/url] -- one of the friars is interviewing another friar who is entering the contemplative branch. Hope this helps. God bless, lc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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