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The active discussion of this topic seems to stop months ago but I have just read all and have some thoughts. I have a suspicion that the desire to be confirmed or recognized in one’s vocation, may have something to do with anxiety and insecurity – apart from other reasons. (I hope no one will take an offence in my words, I speak about myself as well). It is something to do with the desire to be affirmed, accepted and belonged. There is nothing wrong with it of course, it is a human nature. Yet it seems to me that centuries ago things were simpler and more about being than being recognized. Over last hundred years there have appeared more and more detailed descriptions of various charisms of the orders/organizations etc. I remember how years ago I was anxiously reading about “Carmelite charism” – ten, twenty, hundred descriptions from the websites feeling that I must fit into all that. Looking back, I can see it was probably unnecessary, especially since Carmel was approved for me as a way (in a form possible for an Orthodox) by a very wise Jesuit priest. Somehow, I was so anxious that I completely forgot the fact that St John of the Cross was going to join… I forgot which order, also contemplative when St Teresa of Avila convinced him to help her in her reform as a Carmelite friar. I think here is a very important lesson: St John wanted God and he could obtain Him in both places, with both “charisms”. Likewise, St Catherine of Siena did not think about “the Dominican charism” as far as I know but joined its Third Order out practical consideration and a strong feeling that God wanted her to remain in the world. Being a young woman who vowed to remain a virgin she need some formal protection. Now she is a Dominican Saint. I feel there is something very important in those examples: first a person feels what God wants from her, something quite concrete, then she finds a place, a form, a cover to answer God so to speak and not trying anxiously fit into descriptions and boxes… I think when there is such a sense God provides and leads. As for “not being able to live a vocation”. I still believe it is about being. St Gemma Galgani was refused by all monasteries in her area but one; in that one she was not interested because, to her mind, they were “too relaxed” and she wanted austerity. What one would say about that situation? Who was right? She was living as God wanted her to live, I mean her inner life. I understand that this is Catholic forum but I still would like to provide a different approach. In the Orthodox Church there are no different monastic Orders with different charisms. All are contemplatives, technically speaking. If a person wants to become a nun, she joins a monastery as “a worker” meaning she works various tasks, prays, etc, lives there. It can go on for weeks, months, years. Eventually she may become a novice and later – a clothed nun. That is all. Yet, some women who b.o. their health simply chose (in a recent past) to live a strict secluded life at home. We not have a concept of “vows”, a person simply lives chaste. In the past during the Soviet regime we would have so-called “secret nuns” – nuns who were such but lived in the world and no one knew, for an obvious reason. Some lived together in some houses but many were on their own. Did they have a monastic vocation? Yes, but without normal monastic settings. In the Tradition of the Church before the Schism there are stories of famous Saints, monastics, hermits who were told that in the nearest city there are lay people whose lives are higher than their. We also have a saying that "the habit does not make a nun; in the end many nuns will be seen as not while others who were not will be seen as such". What I am saying is that it seems to me everything is much simpler. My firm conclusion is that it is possible to live own vocation no matter what because vocation is simply how a person is called to relate to God. It is something that always brings fruit. Finally, a life in Christian community is very valuable and not just for those wish to enter a monastery. I would like to have such a circle but alas. (It is long but really felt like sharing my thoughts. I think two Churches have much to learn from each other.)

For what they’re worth, here are my comments and suggestions: 1. Finish your degree. Life holds many surprises along the way and you may need to fall back on your degree for a way to earn an income if a religious vocation doesn’t work out somewhere down the line. Your parents are right on this point. 2. Find a job for a year or two after graduation to build up your career credentials, (you have to pay off those school debts before you can enter, anyways!), especially if you are planning on entering an apostolic community that must work outside the convent walls to support itself. You will be more easily marketable to the community with a solid resume. If you are hoping to enter a cloistered community, still take the time to spend a couple of years in the world exploring what it feels like to be a self-sufficient adult. Make sure that your desire to enter a convent right out of school does not have an underlying component of fear of facing the big, impersonal world that you will have to sink or swim in with no emotional or financial support. The world of work will teach you SOOO many things about yourself that you can take with you into the convent to ease your transition into community living. It’s not easy living with strangers, even nice ones you will come to love as sisters, so a little more maturation beforehand and feeling fully anchored in your own personal sense of self will never go to waste. 3. Try a little dating for awhile (if anyone asks!), just on a casual level, to examine your reactions to one-on-one relationships. It’s important to explore and understand your gut reaction of not being interested in marriage. Make sure that you’re not harboring any subconscious concerns about possibly not being romantically attractive to others (if you cut them off before they reject you first, then you don’t have to wonder if it’s YOU, not them). Figure out what particular aspects that you aren’t ‘drawn to’ about married life are unique to marriage alone, because many core aspects of daily communal living will have the same components as married life. If you do not feel drawn to sexual intimacy, what comes to mind when you think about having sex? Are your ambivalent feelings borne of core, inculturated beliefs, are they physical feelings of aversion, are they fears of vulnerability and/or inexperience, or are they romantic notions of noble self-sacrifice? Explore those psychological aspects with someone trained to listen for unspoken nuances. If you have no desire to bear children and raise wonderful human beings, that’s something interesting to explore too, considering that Mary surrendered her will to God when she got pregnant, and ended up giving birth to the Son of God! Explore your psyche as though YOU are the lab specimen, so that you truly understand the choices you make and WHY you are making them. While heartfelt spiritual impulses are fine, take the time and make the effort to intellectually understand them as well so you aren’t blindsided ten years down the road when you reach an unexpected crossroads and feel drawn to reassess your life and where you are going. Lay a strong psychological foundation for whichever life path you select. 4. Understand that if you are truly ready to choose a religious vocation, as a MATURE adult you will feel deeply rooted in your choice and no amount of persuasion or dissatisfaction from your parents will shake you from your convictions. It is not your job to care for your parents in their old age (though I can appreciate their concerns)—it is THEIR responsibility to plan for their own futures without expecting you to sacrifice your life on their behalf. They should be saving up to be able to afford a nursing home level of care, if such a future need arises. You were not born on this earth simply to provide them with easy access to a nursemaid! And as for giving your parents grandchildren, your mom and dad are presuming that 1) you will find someone who wants to marry you, 2) you will be fertile, 3) you will be able to carry a baby to term and 4) the baby will live. Those are all four big ‘if’s’ that may or may not happen. Even if you submit to your parents’ wishes, you may end up remaining single for the rest of your life, despite your best efforts to fall in love with someone who YOU want to marry and who wants to marry you, so grandchildren may still not be in their future! Life is a crapshoot. There are no guarantees. 5. Finally, remember that time is on your side. You do not need to ‘launch’ yourself into your chosen life path immediately, however strong your desires may feel. Follow your inclinations, watch for subtle clues in opportunities that arise or in unexpected coicindences, be willing to try and fail, and remember that there are no wrong choices in life—just different lessons attached to them that will teach you about who you ARE and who you are NOT, beyond the level of external circumstances. Metaphorically speaking, you are the SKY and the circumstances of your life, however they play out, are simply the passing clouds against the backdrop of that eternal part of you that was never born, will never die, and which remains unchanged and perfect, regardless of what happens.

A new novice for the Poor Clares in Boston: https://poorclarenunsboston.org/2020/06/23/meet-sister-margaret-mary-of-the-sacred-heart/

Wow, that is very inspiring to hear her story! I can’t imagine what that felt like though, she is truly a strong and holy woman. You are correct indeed; God alone makes us happy. We just need to trust Him as He only wants what is best for us. I wish I could trust Him more! Thank you for the advice. Prayers! :)) This was very solid advice. I really liked your idea about establishing my own “Rule.” I have begun thinking of that and am planning to start tomorrow. Thank you for that!! It is interesting to hear your perspective as an Eastern Orthodox. I feel I think the same way; the monastic life to me just seems like the highest form of devotion and holiness. I have to remind myself that all vocations are holy! But it can be hard to see that. You are correct in getting some experience before joining the convent. I think I have a lot of growth to go before joining, so I shouldn’t rush it. Thank you for your input. It is greatly appreciated. God bless you!

Greetings Gia Marie! First of all...I am pretty sure that my input will not be as well versed as most other others on here. Lol My perspective is this- as a parent, I do not EXPECT my daughter to support me as I continue to age; nor do I want to burden my daughter with my life and all it does and will entail! I am single and do not have any other family members other than her. She is married with two small children (that I adore) So, I will have to do everything on my own to the best of my abilities...until I am on my dead bed. In my opinion, our children are meant to "Fly the coop"...leave the nest! Not remain ball and chained to their parents! Their expectations are theirs alone! You are 20 and entitled to have your own life! God has obviously blessed you with a vocation to the religious life with a gift/talent for music! (I may be rare in feeling this, but I could only wish that my own daughter was blessed with a vocation such as you have) I concur with what Swami Mommy advised! Finish your degree! Who says that your music has to stop, if you enter into a convent or monastery??! Historically, music and the religious life, go hand in hand! From singing nuns/sisters/priests, to female religious communities who help support their congregation by selling their music either electronically, or CD's. It will not be wasted inside the walls!!! Ask your spiritual director, about how to handle the "guilt trip" your parents are pressuring you with! It may be innocent on their part..but none the less, that is still what it is. A guilt trip! So...you are a only child! That does not constitute the owness on you, to provide them with grandchildren! You are NOT responsible for their perceived happiness! Follow your own path! It is between only you and God, where/what you are feeling pulled towards! God Bless you!

I will give a point of view which comes from being an Eastern Orthodox i.e. someone who (as all Orthodox) hold the monastic life in the highest esteem. If I was to answer your question twenty or ten years ago, I would say “leave everything and enter if you feel a calling”. Yet now, after I have had some experience in the West in the relevant areas and also observed what is going on in monasteries just almost everywhere in the world (including my own motherland) I would say that there too many dangers for things to go wrong if one enters too soon, without some wisdom provided by a life experience and also without having any security of an alternative (like college degree, career etc). There are too many women who entered various communities and then were told to leave after years, sometime many years. This is a huge life drama on its own but if a woman has nothing else apart from the experience of religious life it can crush a person. One also should have a very clear of what a life of a nun is supposed to be so she would be able to discern the places, seeing what is behind the facade. I definitely advice you to finish your degree and to pursue music if you love it. Yes, God fulfills as nothing else does yet we are supposed to answer that fulfillment using talents given by Him. You can use music to glorify God no matter what happens later. Meanwhile you can try (if you have not done it yet) to have a rule (prayers etc) which is big enough to give you some taste of what the Office in the monastery would be. If you proceed with music and will not meet someone you may love you may in the future decide about the monastery or to discern that your vocation is being consecrated woman in the world. As such, you will always be able to serve God via your music in a very direct way – in the churches and so on. All the above said without giving consideration to your parents’ selfish statement about grandchildren. Such statements are painful and unreasonable. No one can use this argument. No one can demand someone to have children because they “wanted grandchildren”. Yet, if they are simply afraid to be separated from you forever then I can understand this feeling, especially since you are the only child. It is pity they add other things which are much less reasonable and guilt-inducing.

Solemn Profession at Crozet Trappistine Abbey in Virginia. https://www.ocso.org/2020/06/20/crozet-4/

Thank you so much for your advice. I loved what you said; “God provides when we need Him to provide, not before.” I needed to hear that. God bless you!! Wow, this is incredible advice. I think you are totally right in finishing college first and maybe getting some experience out of college before committing to any order. I am praying on your advice. Thank you so much for taking the time to offer these wonderful suggestions! It is greatly appreciated!! Praying for you :)) I loved that last point so much! It can be hard to trust that He can truly use any and all situations for His plan. It truly takes great faith to be able to trust in Him completely like that! I pray someday I get there. I will pray for you and your discernment as well. Thank you for the kind reply and advice. God bless you This was so inspiring to read, especially from a parent! I guess I just feel guilty, as I am their only child and do feel like since they have provided & sacrificed so much for me, I should reciprocate that. That is what I have always believed I need to do for my parents. I would feel horrible not being able to take care of them, after everything they have done for me (my mom especially has made unbelievable sacrifices for me). But, I will continue to pray on it and ask the Lord to work in their hearts as well as mine. I really appreciate what you said about being able to use my music even if I am called to religious life. It’s good to remember that. Your response was so thoughtful and much needed. Especially when you said you wished your own daughter had such a vocation! That made me stop & realize that I should be thinking of this vocation as a blessing and a gift. Thank you so, so much for your response. God bless! That is very true. Please pray for me, and I am praying for you!

Are you looking specifically for a retreat that would be based on providing information on vocations in general, including consecrated virginity? Or are you looking more for something like just some quiet time set aside to pray about your vocation and talk to God about what He might be calling you too? If it's the latter, what you might try doing is just making a private retreat, with discernment as your personal focus. If you have a spiritual director or regular confessor, or even just a spiritual mentor-type person, you could ask him or her to suggest some helpful reading on that them, and then make a point to talk about your experiences afterwards. (I'm a consecrated virgin and that's basically what I did during my own discernment.)

I’m praying for you and your family. When I was a nun in a Carmelite Monastery, there was a fellow Sister whose family was very opposed as well. The day she entered when she put the postulant clothing on and went to the parlor and her family was on the other side, they cried and left. Her father has still not visited her and doesn’t write her letters. Her mother and siblings do though but they still don’t like her choice. It’s been over five years. She professed her Solemn Vows about a year ago. When I was there she was as happy as can be and was always joyful in everything. Why? Because it was God’s Will and she was doing it. That is true joy. Pray to know His Will, get whatever guidance you need that God is pleased to send you to help discern, and follow where the Holy Spirit sends you. It’s in doing God’s Will that we will be truly happy and become holy.

Hey Gia, I'm in a somewhat similar situation, have been discerning since I'm 20 and just turned 23. I'm not an only child, but due to certain circumstances this whole "grandchildren and caretaking" stuff is up on me in my parents opinion. Some advice I collected over time: - sometimes parents grow to be more accepting when they see their child bloom - maybe your parents have got a twisted image of RL (which might be the reason why they think entering in a convent meant wasting your life and talents) - my SD told me that in many cases the relationship between children and parents change in the child's early twenties, so you and your parents might see each other pretty differently in a few years from now. - "God usually doesn't call to interrupt one's studies" is what I once heard from a vocation director. If you go on to get your degree this gives you not only better chances to enter as @JHFamily pointed out, but also if you discern out of religious life. - Last but not least another piece of advice from my former SD: "The Lord gets you where He wants you. And if you take a few detours in advance, that's completely fine. He can and will wait." Please stand firm in your faith and take your time to mature and let Him work in your heart (and probably your parents hearts as well). Good luck!

Wow! What excellent advice/perspectives everyone contributed! This is what "Vocation Station" is all about! ;-) Gia! I would like to THANK YOU for responding/commenting (positively) on each and every member's response! While it isn't expected so to speak..it is refreshing to actually hear/read what the original poster took away from others experiences etc! We will hold you in our thoughts and prayers! ;0)

The formalistic answer is “no” but the real situation is quite different. But first I probably should say a little about the “grades” of monastics otherwise can be some confusion. In the Roman Catholic Church “a sister” is a monastic of an apostolic order and “a nun” is a cloistered monastic, contemplative, as far as I know. In the Eastern Orthodox Church “Sister” is a first grade or stage of becoming a nun. Later she becomes “Mother” and then, much later (or often never) she is to become “schema-nun” i.e. hermit-like very strict contemplative who already acquired a very significant wisdom. So, in a sense, there is an “evolution” to more and more contemplation. I have never thought about that until you asked! A typical idea of monastic life is a life within the walls of a monastery, contemplation/prayer and work to support the monastery. It is also a place where lay people can come and get some spiritual advice. But there is much variety within this frame. Some monasteries run orphanages. Some male monasteries run “rehabilitation centres” for ex-criminals who come out and have nowhere else to go. “Run the centres” makes a very formal impression but often monks simply accept those men to live with them, teach them how to pray, eat and work with them etc. (some later leave, some stay in the monastery for ever). Some female monasteries have publishing offices, some teach at Sunday schools etc. Some nuns, for example whose profession is psychology regularly hold seminars, give lectures etc. Yet nothing is institutionalized. A nun who gives lectures is the same in essence as one who lives in a countryside monastery and does menial work or another one, who lives next to the parish church and does some work there. Those variations are understood as “a nun does what is needed right now, out of obedience and according to her talents”. So, the answer would be that some of our nuns do the work which, in the Roman Catholic Church, is called apostolic but no one bothers to institutionalize it because the primary thing is simply being a monastic. And when a person decides to enter a monastery, she is thinking of it as it was in the time of the Church Fathers, “leaving the world”. Having this purpose of a monastic life unobscured no matter what is a strength, I think. Yet, that situation also has disadvantages. For example, there is no guarantee that natural talents of a person would be used; a musician can be sent to take care of cows and her talent ignored entirely. Usually, when a person wishes to be a nun or a monk, they try to find a monastery with a good reputation, solid, with an abbot or an abbess well-known for their faith and attitude. I am not sure if I managed to convey that “organic” attitude which so often annoys Roman Catholics. It is very peculiar and has nothing to do with individualism of Protestants or “relaxed” attitude of hippies.

Cool to hear the reasons as well - cats are best^^

I need to clarify my last post. One thing I'm having trouble understanding is the attitude here. I hoped we were past that. That is the main reason I signed off for such a long time. The sniping and passive-aggressive posts really got to me. I thought respect for the opinions of others was a hallmark of VS.

I very much like Swami Mommy's comments. Perhaps one who has never had children (a vowed celibate) should be careful about commenting - but parents need to accept the choices their adult children make. Your choices in life are your own. It isn't as if (as was true, years ago) you were looking to become an aspirant at 12, and needed parental permission.

In society. There is a serious deception happening. People are being infected by it. It seems to me that some people really think that you have to be a so-called liberal, theologically speaking, to be against racism. And there are those who think that the orthodox are all universally somehow for it. That's a lie from the pit Of hell. There is no dichotomy between truth and love. We need to be on guard. Watch and pray. What do you all think?

Well, I have to admit my affiliation with ignatian spirituality here first, but really: Ignatian spiritual excercises are more or less designed for discerning one's vocation! So, if you were to contact an ignatian community/person near you, they should be able to direct you towards someone who can help you. For example, I know of a Jesuit centre in Germany which has as its main purpose the support of young adults in discernment for any vocation, with different sorts of retreats and accompaniement. Since you are presumably in the US that won't help you much, but as it's in their DNA I'm confident ignatian people in your country do something similar.

One thing is for certain. When it comes to religious life, your parents have no business whatsoever dictating your choice. Right now, your parents do not rely on you, which would seem indicate that this is not an impediment, and if you enter, the care of your parents will be something you will have to figure out when the time comes. God provides when we need him to provide, not before. I am assuming that you have not yet contacted any religious communities and have a couple of years of college under your belt. I would continue with college while you are discerning communities. That may get you closer to graduation, or actually get you to graduation, then the whole conversation becomes moot. In addition, some communities desire for their candidates to have a degree. Then the whole question becomes a moot point. Your spiritual director should be able to lead you from there. This article will not help you, but it does emphasize that your problem is quite common: Vocations & The Elephant in the Room.

Luigi, you never fail to amaze me at how many new vocations you are able to share with us. Thank you!

I'm still trying to wrestle with what's going on. BLM as a political movement is organised/led by extreme left radicals who throw some other things into the trunk: opposition to "heteronormativity", the traditional family structure, private property ownership. Just take a look at the BLM website's value statements. Of course black lives matter, and racial prejudice still exists - people are not by nature colourblind. BLM is certainly supported by many people of good will who agree that black lives matter and that killings and racism ought to end. But I disagree vehemently with the critical race theory embraced by many or most activists.

I wouldn't say you are settling for Benedictine in Atchison, Kansas if that's what you choose. As a student, I've found the faith life at BC extremely rewarding with the staff and community like nothing else. While I'm not a nursing student, many of my friends are and I've heard of nothing but positive comments. They have always had a good foundation in their faith and profession. Is there a fair amount of homework and work outside of class? Yes, but to be honest I'd be worried if there wasn't for nursing students. BC builds an incredible foundation through the required faith and philosophy classes for any student. As a nursing student you will take plenty of ethics classes to know how each situation should be handled in the light of morality and Church teachings. Classes are all day Tuesday and Thursday with clinicals rotating depending on the need. From what I hear, it is competitive to get into the program itself but incredibly worth it. If you are worried about your faith life, they offer Mass 3 times a day with confession offered twice daily. Students are welcome to come for prayers with the monks throughout the day as well as spiritual direction as needed. There's a chapel in nearly every dorm on campus with adoration in one of the chapels Monday through Friday. There's a perpetual adoration chapel at the parish church connected to one of the dorms that is well visited. (I've even seen President Minnis visit the chapel with his wife at night). The president and the dean of the college even host a weekly rosary with students in one of the chapels. They have been doing so virtually every Wednesday since the college closed due to COVID-19. Financial wise, I know many people who chose to go to Benedictine because they were offered more money than Franciscan. Franciscan may be thought of as cheaper, but in the end, Benedictine was much cheaper due to more financial aid and chances for scholarship. I wouldn't say you would be settling for Benedictine. Both Franciscan and Benedictine are amazing Catholic schools that will benefit you whichever way you choose. Please don't think that Benedictine College is a lesser school because it's not as well known as Franciscan University.

Grade inflation

Solemn Profession at Sacred Heart monastery (Benedictine nuns) in Cullman, Alabama, June 27. https://www.shmon.org/community/news/sister-minona-anne-makes-her-perpetual-monastic-profession/

The Parish Visitors of Mary Immaculate have a new vocation video out:

Perhaps you might ask you parents if they have prayed and asked God what he wants for you and do they have the love to put his wishes above their own as much as they love you. These are dire times calling for much prayer and penance. Our world has wandered away from God. Even in many of the young vocations they want to give themselves. to God, but only within certain peramaters. I is. almost like a premarital contract with some. We must be ready to sacrifice everything in order to gain. the union we long for with Christ. Yes, disceern carefully. But when you jump, let go... Frree fall into. God's arms. You will. Be so much happier. Laughing aas time goes on your vision will become keener and you will. See that. What you thought was. You most. Magnanimous gift to God of a clean. Break with everything. For love of him was not. quite so. Clean.... You still need to become free of. Self. And there. Lies. The rest oof your religious. Life. Becoming. More. Free of. Self. So as too. Love. God more. And. Alelse more purely in him including a healthy love of oneself. So here I lie with this stupid Advanced MS ripping my body in every way imaginable, paralysis, vision, ergo. All my typos some days I can n longer recognize the simplest words mostly bedridden gone from Hermit in habit to Hermit in diapers being fed fluids in tubes feeling my intestines beingyanked out, deaf longing for my mothers face staring at. The TV tears in abundance begging God's Mercy on all who suffer seeing not racism as the problem but Satan and demonsfightiing together for the soul of this world. Fatima fulfilled Rosary.. DIVINE MERCY. I DON'T A. REALLY KNOW IF I AM FULFIIIILLING MY VOCATION OR I HAVE FAILED. IIAM A CHILD HALF MISSIONARY OF CHARITY HALF CARMELITE HERMIT, I am a sinner for sure but I deeply believe he dwells within the very core of my being. And it is there that I find my joy! Please I ask all of your prayers. Tenderly in Jesus, Indwelling Trinity

As someone living in good ol' Europa, I can only recommend getting yourself a multi-party representation. It makes voting not necessarily easy, but easier, I guess - having more candidates with good prospects of winning a seat, it's way more likely for everybody to find somebody near their values and political ideas. Plus having to form coalitions fuels democratic ways of decisionmaking. After WW II my country started of with two main parties, now there are up to six of them in the parliaments. And yes, about each of them somebody initially said "Voting for this new group means wasting the ballot!"

I was once in the "a third party vote is a wasted vote camp", just look back to the 2016 posts. lol I’ve came to the realization that once one of the two parties think they have your vote locked down (Republicans with the pro-life vote and Democrats with the black vote) they stop doing anything to actually earn that vote. If the pro-life movement wasn’t tied to Republicans like it is today we’d have BOTH parties still fighting for our votes like we did in very recent history. Now look what’s happened. Republicans take our vote for granted and Democrats view as as a lost cause, kicked us out, and now only try to appeal to the extreme opposite. If the pro-life vote just mobilized one election cycle to focus all of our power on a third party candidate it would have a huge eye opening impact on the importance of the pro-life vote. Nobody will give concessions to someone under contract. The free agents get the big money.

This is a rather long read, primarily because Fr. Martin De Porres is very well educated, in a number of fields, and is very accomplished.

Too many red flags, in my opinion. I'm sorry, but I think it's time to move on.

I think it's a poor show when communities don't take the trouble to answer people who write expressing interest. Sorry if that sounds uncharitable but it does annoy me. Fair enough if there is a delay if it's during Lent or their retreat.

That may be true, however I do think that they still have a responsibility to answer people who reach out to them. How are they going to know if someone has the maturity and qualities needed for a foundress if they never talk to them or spend time with them? I spoke with another women very recently who had the exact same experience as me so I know I’m not the only one who this happened to.

The delay in recent months may also have to do with Covid-19. But I think the other issues are of greater (and more persistent) concern.

with logic like that, how can i argue?

Caritas Christi:The Vow of Chastity If you are to become who you ought to be in the Church laywomen ardently in love with Christ and missionaries of his love among the people, the vow of chastity is necessary—for it Consecrates the resources of your heart and the energies of your being to him alone. You must understand clearly that although often presented negatively as a renunciation of marriage, this vow has a supremely positive meaning. It must be an a effective Consecration, a real application of everything which can no longer be fulfilled for you on the human plane, so that Christ and his kingdom become for you “husband” and “family”. Of its very nature this vow must lead you to a higher love—otherwise it would be disfigurement. St. Paul declares “a husband (is) the head of his wife” (1 Cor 11:3); does this mean that, because of your celibacy, you will consider yourselves “beheaded”, incomplete? God forbid! But in that case, Christ must be your head and this means rising above and outstripping a woman’s narrowness and weakness; it means a love that is wholly given yet dependent. Thus, far from being incomplete you will become more like Christ. All this is good and holy, it is a far cry from being an “old maid” to the Christian virgin, the spouse of Christ! •Fr. Perrin: “Notes”

Many Abbey's, Monastery's, etc. offer either a room in a retreat/guest house or hermitage. And you can pretty much decide how long you want to stay depending on availability and the time you are able to set aside. Most places also have the option of seeing a SD while you're there, or you can simply do a silent/personal retreat. I just returned from a 5-day silent retreat at a Benedictine Monastery near me and stayed in a lovely hermitage. I had the option of brining/cooking my own food, or eating in the dining room. LOTH and Mass were available, and I was able to FaceTime my SD while there. The monastery I spent time at offered a 1-day through 3-month stay if desired and space is available. The costs are usually quite reasonable as most do this as ministry and not a money-making venture. I suggest looking at the website of your Arch/Diocese. Most have a listing of retreat facilities within their boundaries. The problem I found was that many retreat facilities are now booked up through mid-fall due to COVID19. They are trying to reschedule the retreats that had to be cancelled. But be persistent...it pays off...or it did in my case. I contacted the nuns on the very day they voted to reopen the Monastery to the public and luckily space was available. Good luck

"O [Jesus Christ] most merciful redeemer, friend and brother, may I know thee more clearly, love thee more dearly, and follow thee more nearly, day by day." – St Richard of Chichester whose feast is today (16 June) Orphaned while a young lad, he received an excellent education at Oxford, Paris, and Bologna, Italy He earned a doctorate in law from the University of Bologna. He was appointed chancellor of Oxford in 1235 and then chancellor to Edmund Rich, who was archbishop of Canterbury. He was ordained in 1243. St Boniface named Richard Bishop of Chichester. He insisted upon strict adherence to discipline among the clergy, aided the poor, and fearlessly denounced the corruption and vices of the contemporary Church and the royal court. His death came at Dover, in a home for poor priests. Richard was canonized in 1262, and his tomb became a popular shrine noted for its miracles until the Reformation in England.

I'm not sure where you are, but the Visitandines have as part of their constitutions the ability to accept women into the cloister who are discerning a vocation writ large, and not just with their community. Obviously, their ability to do so now is going to depend on their own circumstances, but that might be a good place to look.

Da war jemand in der Zukunftswerkstatt :D

Another excellent online resource is the Vision Vocation Network, sponsored by the National Religious Vocation Conference. There is a lot to explore on this site. https://vocationnetwork.org/en/

Cities across the country have called for the removal of Confederate monuments amid Black Lives Matter protests A little ironic that A less than peaceful protester was nearly killed by the very same statue falling on his head... A protester was seriously injured in Virginia this week when a Confederate statue he helped tear down toppled on top of him, according to reports. The man, believed to be in his 30s, was part of a group of demonstrators Wednesday night trying to take down the Confederate monument in Portsmouth, Believe in the promise of MLK A person’s character matters

Hello pham, It's been a hot minute since I have posted, and well much has happened in the world and in my own life since I posted back in March. Ultimately I did not apply to the community I mentioned above. The VD had sent out two applications, both of which got lost in the mail. Then I was asked to wait on my application, which was completely fine, but the community was less than communicative from there on out. I haven't been able to speak with the VD since March, despite my efforts at contact. I have resigned myself to the fact that entering this community is not going to happen. I was very bitter about the whole thing for awhile. I was mad at the community, and I was mad at God. I felt like went off the rails in my bitterness and immediately started to try and date, which of course, was a terrible move. The lack of access to the sacraments because of COVID-19 also has taken it's toll on me just as it's taken it's toll on everyone. I'm at a point where in my diocese I can attend mass and confession again, and feel as though I can begin to pick through the pieces of what has happened. I'm taking some time to breathe and rest in the Lord before moving forward with discerning with any other community. I know in my heart of hearts I'm still called, despite my struggles and shortcomings. Just right now I need from rest from the journey. Pray for me please? I continue to hold you all in prayer! Love you my pham.

I just returned from a 5 day silent retreat at the monastery of a very small community of Benedictine sisters whose mission/community life/charisms they lived at one time years ago just could not be sustained, nor did they want to sustain it. They have morphed....dare I say evolved......into a beautiful life-giving/sustaining community and they wouldn't have it any other way. Yes, it's small. But it is also vibrant, welcoming, and inclusive. I hasten to add that I'm a very traditional RC, yet I respect these women, what they have done, and what they continue to do as they move forward. I know of the scholarship Nunsuch has done (and is doing) and her knowledge and involvement with many communities of religious women. Please don't dismiss this as "pompous" as she didn't pull her comments out of thin air.

the judge and the jury are supposed to presume him innocent. the prosecutor must believe he is guilty. in fact, if the prosecutor does not believe him to be guilty, then he is ethically obligated not to prosecute him. so yes, the prosecution must strategically try to get him convicted of the highest charge they think he's guilty of and which they think they can prove. it's an adversarial system. everyone is entitled to a defense, and we could also talk about the strategic game the defense needs to play. strategically, he's not indefensible, the levels of fentanyl and meth in his blood along with the first autopsy can form an argument for reasonable doubt, I think ultimately the counterargument that keeping his knee on his neck even after he was unresponsive clearly shows a lethal action will probably win over the jury. anyway, a defense lawyer doesn't have to believe his client is innocent, although he can't knowingly allow him to commit perjury. the system does need that. jury selection is going to be quite difficult on both sides because they should get a jury who can actually start from the presumption of innocence. i just don't understand what's so wrong about talking about the strategy of a prosecution. the prosecution by definition presumes he is guilty, it's all other aspects of the court that need to presume him innocent until the prosecutor proves him guilty. of course, the court of public opinion operates on a different time scale and without the structure of process, most of the public has decided based on the video that he's been proven guilty to them. i understand the court of public opinion is problematic sometimes, especially when it comes to cancel culture and wild accusations and such, but overall people are entitled to their own opinion... it's gonna make jury selection difficult, but you can't demand public opinion presume him innocent absent a conviction. it is certainly worrying to see the power of the mob, it's good that we do have a process in place, but yeah, it's an adversarial game. i hope he's convicted, not just because of the mob, but because based on that video I think he killed him. I don't know for sure his motivations and his intent, but keeping his knee there after the guy stopped moving is just plain wrong IMHO. of course I do also admit I fear what kind of riots would happen if he was acquitted, but if I truly thought he wasn't guilty I'd want him acquitted even if the mobs disagreed. justice applied to appease a violent mob is no justice at all.

BINGO! (I really shouldn't post late at night. I'm tired and those kinds of details get past me...) - Good catch!

The Rite of Consecration actually was still in use, but only for cloistered nuns in certain religious families that kept the use of the Rite as a special tradition. The reason why the Church was able to revise the Rite so relatively easily after Vatican II was because some Orders had basically preserved it for posterity in this way. I would say that some other big differences between consecrated virgins and secular institutes are that: 1. consecrated virginity is a totally public commitment, and CVs are called to be public witnesses and therefore to be open about their status at all times; 2. consecrated virginity is rooted in the local diocesan Church as opposed to a community, with consecrated virgins basically answering to the local bishop as opposed to a community moderator; 3. consecrated virgins are supposed to engage in some sort of specifically Church-related service (whether through their job or through volunteer work); 4. the spirituality of consecrated virgins is based on the Rite of Consecration, rather than on the spirituality or charism of a particular founder. Consecrated virgins do actually make a commitment to observe the evangelical counsels when they promise to "follow Christ in the spirit of the Gospel" during the Rite of Consecration. (Ecclesiae Sponsae Imago also talks about CVs being called to live the evangelical counsels in n. 27) But Faustina86 is correct that CVs don't technically make vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience per se.

I spoke about the essence or the reality of whom St Catherine was. I think the Rite of Consecration as we know it now was not used at that time. Thank you for your explanation, and also for the clarification of what I was most of all interested in i.e. mutual support of the people in your Institution.

These Sisters are on the grounds of a sedevacantist church, so it seems reasonable to assume they are also sedevacantist and so not suitable for discussing on the Vocation Station.

What kind of fair justice is “playing the game” for an expected outcome to satisfy the emotions of the rabble? Think of Ponticus Pilate asking the crowd to crucify Jesus or Barabas. The arresting officers may all legitimately deserve time in jail. Also, maybe the police chief and supervisors if they repeatedly turned a blind eye to police brutality. Maybe only police supervisors if the knee restraint was known to be dangerous, but that is how they trained and expected their officers to perform. If the arresting officers were doing what they’ve been trained and permitted and expected to do for years, it was only a matter of time for a tragedy to happen. It’s not right to call for the officer’s heads and then figure out how best to give them the longest prison term whilst preventing real objectivity or impartiality. The legal system is not perfect, often biased, and can be prejudiced against minorities or protect bad cops, but it isn’t addressed properly or fixed by subversion of impartiality or warping justice. Basic morality and ethics does not promote wrong to do right.

Assuming a conviction is required is not reasonable or fair. It is absolutely wrong that arrest by police would result in a death. Even if George Floyd was being arrested and handcuffed after shooting the shop owner in the face, it’s not acceptable for him to be killed in the process of arrest as what I’ve seen in the video. Absolutely his death should be investigated and the officers involved suspended, pending a thorough and fair investigation. There are legitimate questions as far as officer training, the health of Mr. Floyd, but also the responsibility of the leadership of the Minneapolis Police Department. I’ve read these officers have had multiple serious complaints about their use of excessive force with little to no discipline action. That’s concerning to me, if true. It’s also could be indicative of a culture of excessive force being tolerated and permitted within the Police Department. Finding answers to these and other possible issues is what the legal system is for. Yes, sometimes it takes mass protests to engender wide public scrutiny, but riots and looting this early on is thugs taking advantage of the situation. Just as looters are blurring and undermining the message and point of the protesters, calls for convictions before a trial and search for the facts is detrimental to a better legal process coming to bear on this tragedy and possible crimes by more than just the field officers.