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The other day, I was walking into church, and I realized I had put my lace dress slip over my head thinking it was my mantilla....(I hadn't done my laundry, and I had grabbed my slip by accident, off my bed thinking it was my black mantilla!) I thought it was a bit too long!!! Glad I realized it before i looked even more ridiculous!

thank you! baby is the size of a vanilla bean seed and burrowing into my uterus!

Hello Amy, Maybe first something about the nature of this forum: We are not people in a professional function who have the task to help with vocational problems. We are seekers for our vocation ourselves, plus some members of religious orders and others who are supportive of this subject. Any concrete advice would be the job of the people a vocations office or of course a community you are in contact with. I know that in Benecictine communities it happens that sisters who have left are readmitted again - the rule of St. Benedict even has provisions for this. I don't know how the case is regarding Carmelite communities, ie. whether you could re-join your former community. If this might be an option for you I'd definitely contact them, like JHFamily wrote. In my experience, any other community you wish to join will want to talk with your former community anyway, so even if you can't or don't want to go back, it would be good to be talking with them. Even if maybe you'd find it difficult to talk to sisters in leadership positions, possibly there are others you could ask about their contacts to other carmelite communities - I'd think that Carmelites are in a much better position to know about other Carmelites than we are! Other than that, you could just google Carmelite communites and send a short email to each of them, asking them whether they would consider re-admitting someone at your age. I'd definitely mention that you were a Carmelite before, because this means that you can live this life - so even if a community normally has a lower age limit, they might consider you anyway. You don't write about the reasons why you left nor how long ago this has been, so I'm thinking that maybe some help in processing your experience might be useful - for example there is https://leonieslonging.org/ .

What you call hubris may very well be trust in God's mercy. I see no point to aim for purgatory. And I know I'm far from perfect now but I hope that God will perfect me at the moment of my death.

Jesus has called us all to a life of extraordinary holiness. Yet there are so few living saints. Most don't even think that being a saint (or the closest thing to it that is possible) in this life is even an option. How did we get to the place where everyone is planning for purgatory and not going for the great prize now? Why is the Church unable to teach people how to actually fulfill the promises of Christ?

Been a while since I've logged on to this forum. For some reason today the idea occurred to me, "I wonder if that Phatmass thing is still around?" And here it is! If I remember right, I was somewhat active around the 2012ish time, probably until sometime during my first year of college in late 2013. But I don't really remember. Maybe I logged on a couple times during college? Either way, it's been a while. I'm gonna go read through old posts of mine and cringe about how much of an idiot I was back then. And then cringe more knowing that I'm still the same idiot, just with better social skills. Ha! Maybe I'll make a return to being active again, or not. Depends. Young adulthood smells of elderberries and good community is too far and few in between. Edit: I was wrong! My most recent post was from like 2017. I totally forgot. Ha! God bless you all and see you around the Phorum!

thank you very much!! pray for a healthy pregnancy

http://ndfranciscans.org/read-the-blog/a-real-treat-and-pain-in-the-seat This past Friday, I was invited to go sledding at Lincoln Park with some students from the Newman Center. I hadn't been sledding in a long, long time, though I grew up less than two blocks away from the best sledding h...

congrats!

That's good news...thanks for the update.

I think it's because a lot of people don't know or understand that we are actually supposed to be Jesus and completely transformed into him. That's what it means to be a Saint, something that begins here and now. There are organizations in the Catholic Church that strive to educate fellow Catholics about their call to greatness, willed by God. One of these is the Institute of Catholic Culture, www.instituteofcatholicculture.org. They offer free talks – – free adult education which comprises an entire curriculum for learning about the faith. The material is out there. People just don't know about it. God didn't create us for just barely making it, he created us to represent him and make him present in the world by allowing him to live his life in us. To be one with him. I think that there are two extremes… The Protestant idea of once saved always saved: it's all a done deal, I don't have to do anything really other than get people saved like me so they don't have to do anything either. The other idea would be similar, Catholics thinking they would be saved, hopefully at the moment of their death, until then they don't have do anything other than take care of material needs, because God knows I'm a good person. Both of these take salvation for granted. Combine that with an idea that we can't really know truth, coming from the secular culture. The reality is, only saints go to heaven (which is ultimately not floating on clouds playing harps as disembodied spirits). I think it is up to us to live as saints and get the Word out. … How do we do that is the question…

I know that we sometimes see questions about new communities on Vocation Station. This list comes from the International Cultic Studies Association (cheery name, huh) and gives a run down of what canon lawyers look for as red-flags in a newer community. Being a novice (literally) I was sometimes confused about what was 'normal' and what was 'iffy' in religious life. I think this list can be a very useful tool for discernment with ANY community, new or old. [url="http://www.icsahome.com/infoserv_articles/vere_peter_whatcanonlawyerslookfor_0402.htm"]full article[/url] [quote][u][b][size="2"] 1.“Total” obedience to the pope[/b][/u] Many will find this first warning sign surprising. As Catholics, are we not all called to obey the Holy Father? Indeed, we are. When a new association sincerely seeks to obey and follow the teachings of the Holy Father, canonists are for the most part satisfied the group is doing what Catholic groups ought to do. Nevertheless, some new associations abuse Catholic sensibility in this regard. These groups cite “total obedience to the Holy Father” when what they really mean is partial obedience to selected teachings of the Holy Father, without embracing the entire papal message. Additionally, when challenged over their partial obedience, these groups will appeal to their “total” reliance upon the Holy Father in an attempt to bypass the authority of the diocesan bishop. This brings us to Fr. Morrisey’s second warning sign. [u][b]2. No sense of belonging to the local church[/b][/u] As Catholics, we belong to the universal Church. Yet we also belong to the local church community, meaning a local parish and a local diocese. Even the Holy Father is not exempt in this regard; he is, after all, the Bishop of Rome and thus belongs to a local Roman Church. Thus the ministry and apostolate of any association should focus on the local church. If a new association or religious order has no sense of belonging to the local church, then this becomes cause for concern. [u] [b]3. Lack of true cooperation with diocesan authorities[/b][/u] To belong to the local church, one must cooperate with local diocesan authorities. After all, Christ instituted His Church as a hierarchy. Within this hierarchy, our Lord instituted the office of bishop to oversee a portion of Christ’s faithful. Thus the local bishop, and not a particular religious group or association, bears ultimate responsibility for the care of souls within a particular geographical location. If a new association refuses or impedes cooperation between itself and the local diocesan authorities, then its fidelity to the Church is questionable. [u][b]4. Making use of lies and falsehoods to obtain approval[/b][/u] As Catholics, we concern ourselves with speaking the truth. After all, our Lord denounces Satan as the “Father of Lies.” So any new association should be truthful in how it presents itself to its members, Church authorities, and the outside world. This is not just a matter of basic honesty; any group or association that resorts to falsehoods to gain approval is likely concealing a deeper problem. The Church understands that every association, particularly when the association is new, makes mistakes when engaging in ministry or apostolate. When an association is honest, however, these problems are easily identified and quickly corrected. This in turn increases the likelihood of the new association succeeding within the Church. [u] [b]5. Too soon an insistence on placing all goods in common [/b][/u] While the Church has a history of associations and religious orders in which members place all their goods in common, the decision to do so should come after a reasonable period of careful discernment. Placing one’s goods in common in not for everyone, and the consequences of such a decision are lifelong. Additionally, the potential for abuse by those who administer the common goods is great. Therefore, canonists frown upon any insistence by an association that its new or potential members place their goods in common. Due to the fact that modern times see less stability in common life, with members sometimes opting to leave after a number of years, the most prudent handling of goods in common is to place them in trust until a member dies. That way, if the member leaves, the goods are available to meet his or her needs outside of the community. [b] [u]6. Claiming special revelations or messages leading to the founding of the group[/b] [/u] Although this represents a warning sign, it is not absolute. The Church recognizes the presence of many legitimate apparitions and private revelations throughout her history. Yet not all alleged apparitions or special revelations turn out to be true. Therefore, the Church must further investigate any claims of special revelations or messages — particularly when they become the catalyst for founding a new association. If, however, a new association refuses to divulge or submit its alleged revelations or special messages to the Church, then this immediately calls into question the authenticity of both the association and the alleged apparition. [u][b]7. Special status of the founder or foundress[/b][/u] Of course, the founder or foundress will always enjoy a special role in the founding of a new association or community. Nevertheless, in all other respects he or she should be a member just like everyone else. This means that he or she is similarly bound to the customs, disciplines, and constitutions of the community. If the founder or foundress demands special meals, special living quarters, special dispensations from the rules imposed upon other members of the community, or any other special treatment, then this is a clear warning sign. It is of special concern if the founder or foundress claims exemption from the requirements of Christian morality due to his or her status (see point 15 below). [u][b]8. Special and severe penances imposed[/b][/u] As St. Thomas Aquinas teaches, virtue is found in the middle, between two extremes. Therefore, any penances imposed upon members of the community should be both moderate and reasonable. Special and severe penances are not signs of virtue — rather, they are signs of extremism. [b] [u]9. Multiplicity of devotions, without any doctrinal unity among them[/b][/u] The purpose of sacramentals and other devotions is to bring us closer to Christ and the sacraments. Hence sacramentals are not superstitions. A new association or community should insure that any special devotions or sacramentals unite its members to Christ, the sacraments, and the mission of the association. For example, praying three Hail Marys in front of the statue of St. Joseph while the Blessed Sacrament is exposed does not offer such unity. Eucharistic Adoration, Marian devotion and devotion to St. Joseph are all good in themselves, however, they should be offered either individually or collectively as devotion to the Holy Family. They should not be offered simultaneously. [b] [u]10. Promotion of “fringe” elements in the life of the Church[/b][/u] As previously mentioned, every association or organization within the Church should exist to serve the needs of Christ’s faithful. Therefore, canonists view any association that exists solely to serve fringe elements — whether these elements be special apparitions, private revelations, or extreme social or political agendas, etc. — with suspicion. This is not to deny that extraordinary events may sometimes become the catalyst for a new association or religious order. For example, St. Francis of Assisi founded the Franciscans after receiving a locution from our Lord to “Rebuild My Church.” Nevertheless, St. Francis did not found the Franciscans with the intention of promoting his internal locution. Rather, the internal locution inspired St. Francis to found an order that would serve the Church. [u][b]11. Special vows[/b][/u] Within the Church, one finds the three traditional vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience. Additional or special vows present numerous problems. Often, special vows are reduced to means through which superiors unduly control members of the community or association. The danger is particularly pointed where a special vow cannot be externally verified. Take “joy” for example; one can usually appeal to objective evidence that someone is not living a life of poverty, chastity and/or obedience, but as a feeling, “joy” is too subjective to be judged in an objective manner. [u][b]12. Absolute secrecy imposed on members[/b][/u] While some discretion and privacy is necessary within any Church community or association, secrecy should never be absolute unless one is a confessor preserving the seal of confession. Therefore, any association or organization that imposes absolute secrecy upon its members should be approached with the utmost caution. Members should always be free to approach diocesan officials and the Holy See if certain problems arise within the community that are not dealt with in an adequate fashion. Similarly, since these associations exist to serve the Church, all members should be allowed to converse freely and honestly with members of the Church hierarchy when requested. [u][b]13. Control over the choice of confessors and spiritual directors[/b][/u] Confession and spiritual direction concern the internal forum — that is, those things that are private to a person’s conscience. Within reasonable limits, a person should be free to choose his or her confessor and spiritual director. On the other hand, obedience to one’s superiors in carrying out an association’s apostolate or ministry concerns the external forum. In other words, the latter are public actions that can be externally verified. The roles of confessor and spiritual director should never be confused with the role of superior. Nor should there even be the appearance of confusion. Of particular concern to canonists is when a superior imposes himself as confessor and/or spiritual director of a member under his charge. After all, a superior will have to make decisions about a member’s future — and in so doing there exists a strong temptation to make use of information gathered under the seal of confession. [u][b]14. Serious discontent with the previous institute of which certain members were part[/b][/u] Like some of the other red flags presented, this warning sign is not absolute. Sometimes, a very good reason exists for a member’s discontent with his or her previous institute. Nevertheless, serious discontent with a previous institute should be carefully examined. In most cases, such discontent points to some deeper problems with the individual, particularly if he or she has a history of “conflict of personalities.” [u][b]15. Any form of sexual misconduct as a basis[/b][/u] This warning sign is fairly self-explanatory. The Church’s teaching is clear when it comes to sexual morality. If sexual immorality is the basis for a new group or association, then the association ought to be avoided. Additionally, one should immediately report this to the competent Church authority. Five Additional Warning Signs from the International Cultic Studies Association [i]In addition to the fifteen warning signs presented by Fr. Morrisey, Dr. Michael Langone has assembled a list of thirteen criteria by which many cult experts judge a group to be a cult. Dr. Langone is a counseling psychologist and the Executive Director of the International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA). He has spent nearly 30 years researching and writing about cults, and for 20 years has been the editor of the Cultic Studies Journal. The following five criteria have been adapted from Dr. Langone’s thirteen criteria and applied to the context of Catholic associations. Some canon lawyers find them useful when evaluating the legitimacy of a new association within the Church.[/i] [u][b]1. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members[/b][/u] Of course every new association, if it wishes to grow, will seek to increase its membership. Such growth, however, should come because potential members identify with the mission or apostolate of the association. Additionally, members should only join after a reasonable period of discernment. Thus, any association whose main focus is to bring in new members, to the exclusion of other acts of apostolate or ministry, should be carefully examined. [u][b]2. The group is preoccupied with making money [/b][/u] Like the previous criterion, there is nothing wrong per se with raising money for one’s association or apostolate. After all, even Christ and the Apostles used money. Nevertheless, money should be a means of carrying out legitimate ministry and apostolic work. Raising money should never be an end in itself. Additionally, the means employed in raising money should be honest and transparent. [u][b]3. Elitism[/b][/u] The Catholic Church recognizes that by virtue of their baptism, a certain equality exists among Christ’s faithful, regardless of whether one belongs to the lay, religious, or clerical state. Additionally, among religious orders and newer forms of consecrated life, the Church recognizes different types of charisms. Some are active, in that they tend heavily toward active ministry and apostolic work. Others are contemplative, in that they tend more toward prayer and contemplation. Of course, you find everything in between. Therefore, any Church association that only recognizes vocations to its association is not thinking with the mind of the Church. Nor are those associations with a polarized mentality that divide their vocations from those of the rest of the Church. [u][b]4. The leadership induces feeling of guilt in members to control them[/b][/u] One’s vocation within the Church should be freely chosen. Similarly, obedience is something a superior should inspire among those under his or her charge. While it sometimes happens that a superior must impose his or her will upon a particular member, obedience should never be coerced through illicit or improper means. Additionally, if a superior must constantly impose his will upon the majority of the membership through coercive means, then this proves problematical to the long-term health of the specific association or religious group. [b] [u]5. The group completely severs its members from the outside world[/b][/u] Granted, one must be careful here. After all, the Church has a long and honored tradition of cloistered and contemplative orders that sever themselves from the day-to-day activities of the outside world. Nevertheless, even those orders of the most strict observance encourage some forms of outside communication with friends, family and the world. Therefore, it is cause for concern when an association, particularly if the association is lay-based, encourages its members to completely sever ties with friends, family, and the outside world. Additionally, one should beware those associations that encourage or require their members to live and/or socialize only with other members of the same group or association. One should also beware if association or friendships with people outside of the group are encouraged only when they are used to further the goals of the group.[/size][/quote]

I think he was just asking a question. But I will say there are a lot of Catholics on the interwebs who say things like "I'm going to have to sit in purgatory for x amount of years." Some of that may be in jest but also it might reflect a genuine attitude. I wonder if it's in part reaction to the absolute certainty of salvation that many protestants endorse i.e. "once saved, always saved."

I don't like them. Perhaps using the word "ethics" regarding them is a bit too serious, they are just dogs. I think if life is truly sacred then it should imply a respect and reverence for other forms, even if we do not ascribe to them the full dignity of a human person.

I recommend reading "I Believe in Love: A Personal Retreat Based on the Teaching of St. Thérèse of Lisieux".

no one ever said anything to me in real life. Just folks online have shown their general attitudes that they might not be so forward with in polite face-to-face dealings

Do you know the word "hubris?" You might want to look it up. In an theological encyclopedia, not just a secular dictionary.

The Benedictine Sisters of Erie, PA, have received four women into the postulancy this calendar year, in January, April, and September. Another sister made first vows in March, which makes 4 scholastics for the community.

Confusion is never a good sign. Ask God to give you peace if it is his will that you discern with this order and then put it in the Blessed Mother’s hands by saying a nine day novena to her. At the end of the novena, if you still feel any confusion or discomfort, put the idea aside and discern elsewhere. if you have a strong sense of peace and no concerns, go ahead and discern with them. There is no need to keep digging around for more information. It really is as simple as that.

If all this is worrying you and causing such turmoil then would it not be better to look at other communities who do not have all this historical trouble in their background.

I am reading yet again, a beautiful little book "The Love that Keeps Us Sane" by Marc Foley OCD (Carmelite priest). On pages 80 and 81 (of 93 pages), I read the following words which reminded me of something said in this thread by another member: In another part in the little book (I cannot find it hence am paraphrasing) Marc Foley writes that he did not want to write a book about holiness, rather about sanity. What he discovered in writing the book is that sanity and holiness are one and the same. __________________ I think that I need to grasp that my life as it is has not come about accidentally or by chance. My life as it is, as unremarkable and ordinary as it is consisting of nothing but trifles, is as God Wills it to be, as He has permitted it to be. Very mysteriously, no matter how unremarkable and trifling a way of life, it is contributing in potential*** to the salvation of the world. Hence, my focus must shift off the paltry nature of my life as it is to me, and focus on the fact that the mystery of it is that it is God's Will for me and in Him has outstanding potential, remarkable and supernatural potential. ____________________ *** The "in potential" factor in life is to ask myself, am I living my life for and in God - lovingly for the Love of God? The desire to do remarkable things for the Glory of God may well be that as prime, it can also be - deep down - a desire to glorify oneself. ______________ https://www.amazon.com/Love-That-Keeps-Sane-Illuminationbooks/dp/0809140020 Abandonment to Divine Providence is available online on the CCEL website. It is important that a purchased copy of this work does include the Letters by de Caussade in the rear - not all copies includes the Letters. CCEL "Abandonment to Divine Providence" online (including the Letters): https://www.ccel.org/ccel/decaussade/abandonment

You appear to recognise that what you are posting is anti Catholic commentary appearing on Catholic websites. Then what is the question you are asking of Phatmass members here? I do not think you will get one united response, rather contrary responses and opinions, more or less as has unfolded to date in this thread. Has this enlightened you as to your purpose? Your purpose, whatever it is, might be better served by posting on the websites where you are originally picking up the material. Initially, Phatmass was loyal to the Teaching Authority of The Church as a requirement of membership - that seems to have changed in recent times and membership split into two camps of which I am immediately aware. Opposing camps of opinion and thought. The lack of loyalty to The Church is very sad - it has infected most all 'catholic' sites of which I am aware, This has robbed Phatmass of its uniqueness. We have become just another one amongst the many.

Jesus says in the Gospel of John (John Chapter 8) "He (Satan) was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he speaks in character, because he is a liar and the father of lies." Ephesians Chapter 6 "Put on the armor of God so that you may be able to stand firm against the tactics of the devil. For our struggle is not with flesh and blood but with the principalities, with the powers, with the world rulers of this present darkness, with the evil spirits in the heavens".............."In all circumstances, hold faith as a shield, to quench all (the) flaming arrows of the evil one" _________________________ It is not fashionable and can even be dismissed and laughed at and about, but our struggle and battle on earth is with the powers of evil, personalised evil that we hear 'whispering in our ear' or temptation(s) against Faith and this is why Faith becomes our armour and protection against evil and the powers of evil. I invest in Faith and what my Faith teaches me - and no longer a full investment in my own thinking. This is not an easy overnight decision, it is a battle of its own to cling to Faith and only Faith and what it teaches me. In other words, against all and any opposition, I choose to cling to the Teaching Authority of The Church. This is not at all of necessity an abandonment of my own thinking but may it be moreso a journey to understand what Faith/The Church teaches me about my own very personal journey and how I am to live it out in my daily life. It is a journey with The Holy Spirit and the door for Him has been opened by my desire to make The Lord my all. _____________ In distress at my inability to pray as I would like/choose to pray, I am assured that I have a desire to pray not as God is calling me to pray, but as I want/choose to pray .....i.e. it is about myself and centred on myself and invested in myself - but is still a desire to pray. Hence it is an imperfect desire. What else but an imperfect desire can this imperfect creature have! Recognising my own imperfection and accepting it as my own, I then pray as I can, not as I can not - asking The Holy Spirit to please lead me in to that place as the place, time and manner that God desires me to pray.......i.e. I am beginning to decentralise from self and on to God. I will know when I have arrived at God's Will and not my own from the Transcending Peace I am gifted. There is a Peace that comes too from the desire to decentralise off self and on to God, a desire and journey to put God and His Will as my centre and pivot, my heart and my soul.

I feel badly that the thread turned out this way. Your original post was simply a happy announcement and after a lengthy thread and debate, you’re defending yourself. I hope all the commenters responded with good intentions but it’s a real downer to be so excited about being a newlywed and then find yourself on the defensive end of the ensuing discussion. To everyone: I’m all for discussions about Church teachings, but I don’t think that the OP invited this debate with her initial post.

Hello Nikita92. Thank you for your comment. Catholicism is very much a schizophrenic thing (to my eyes) as it teaches us of a loving Christ on the one hand and of a wrathful God on the other. After all, God sent His only Son to die a HORRIBLE death for our sins. If HIS death on the cross was unnecessary why would a LOVING God deal this out. Today's church seems to preach a loving Christ no matter how much you ignore or blaspheme here. I am frightened that I just don't TRY hard enough.

For some reason, of late, I've found myself frequently mouthing a simple, ancient prayer:, found as far back as the book of Revelation: "Come... https://ndfranciscans.weebly.com/blog/come-lord-jesus