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Carmel is about a soul in the desert before God. There is nothing else there. The charism is an infused contemplation and the ultimate goal is union with God. It is the most "naked" spirituality that literally leaves nothing but a soul and God. What are the "modern rules and practices" that would help that goal? And who are "we"?

It does impact my parenting because I'm a white man with the responsibility of being a father to black children, and all that entails: racism, culture, history, safety, etc. I've been forced to think about things that weren't even an afterthought in my childhood, from how to act around cops, to why Jesus is depicted as white in almost every popular piece of art.

At this age, if she discerns out, she'll probably start college. When my daughter entered Carmel out of high school, we made sure that she had all her ducks in a row, so to speak, so she could begin college shortly after arriving home. But that didn't happen, and I would say she's the happiest 20 year old woman in the world right now!

I may have a unique perspective on this. I have a daughter that entered Carmel right out of high school. She, too, knew she was meant for Carmel at a young age, and many of the sisters are the same way. She loves her life there, and she made her First Profession last week on the Feast of the Epiphany. I think it would have been unfair of me to demand that she attend college, even though I did insist that she take the ACT "just in case" she didn't stay (though I highly doubted she would return home). In my opinion, it would have been downright cruel to ask her to wait. However, in the ne

If you are truly interested in entering, I think 3-4 times a year until you get closer to that time when you can actually make plans to visit. Perhaps, each time you have a "life event", if you will. "I just finished my Spring semester, and I did really well. One more year to go! ... looking forward to that time when I'll have an opportunity to visit."

My daughter belongs to a JMJ Carmel, and by the time Mother will speak about an application, she senses a definite vocation to Carmel in the young lady and understands the young lady senses it about herself. Their application process is fairly simple; she had everything complete within the month. It exists to make sure there are not any impediments to your entering. The news she had been accepted, on the other hand, took two months to arrive, so you may have to practice a little patience!

There is a variety of expressions of Carmelite contemplative life. Some are more updated (see, for example, the original Baltimore Carmel). Some are more traditional. The same is true for Poor Clares, Visitandines, etc. So it's not simply a question of "updating" or not. I think it is good that there are various expressions of these spiritualities.

What do you mean by "updates"? While new orders and rules are certainly a blessing to the Church (and it seems that there are more than a few coming into being in recent years) it's important to remember that even the oldest orders contribute greatly to the Church, and also to the new orders starting up. Where would we be without the prayers of contemplative Benedictines and Carmelites, to name two well-known orders? And if you mean they're not "up-to-date" because of their lifestyle, well, of course contemplative Carmelite nuns, even today, are going to be living an entirely different way of

A lot of commenters are saying that they wouldn’t be comfortable with having their seventeen-year-old daughter get married, and I agree that for the very large majority of people seventeen is way too young to marry someone. It’s also overwhelmingly rare to be ready to enter a convent at that age too. At the same time the religious vocation is not at all the married one and the formation is far more intense. A seventeen-year-old girl who decides to be married has several months of guidance under a priest before she’s locked in for life, and it’s probable that she was head over heels in love whe

If your parents are paying for your college in full, then going is one thing. If they expect you to finance it, I'd look at going to a two year community college for an associate's degree and/or university transfer program as you probably can find grants/scholarships to cover the cost and won't accrue debt and worst case if you have to borrow it'd probably be a few thousand that could be paid off with a few months work or maybe selling your possessions. Do NOT go into debt just to please your parents if you feel you have a religious vocation.

Hey there, as someone who only thought about religious life forthe first time as a sophomore in college, I just can say that living on my own made a huge difference. It is a great opportunity to mature, to live responsibly and certainly changes the relationship to ones family. [Actually, it made my mother see me as the adult I am.] This might be a chance for you, but if all you can think about in class is how you wish you weren't there, but in the monastery, classes aren't particularly fruitful God bless!

Provided that you wouldn't be accumulating any student loan debt--i.e., if it's the case that your parents would be sending you to college and paying for you to go--I would go ahead and earn a four-year degree. Waiting until after you finish college to enter a community you're in touch with is very, very normal. I would think the vast majority of vocation directors would be happy to stay actively in touch with you during your college years, while you prepare to enter right after graduation. At your age, I wouldn't look at it as "putting off your vocation." I would see it as more lik

I really shouldn't be up this late... but since I am I thought I'd post this. Great story, and she explains really well her decision to enter so young. https://www.homeofthemother.org/en/about-us/servant-sisters/testimonies/2047-sr-kristen "I knew that God did not want me to wait. If He had told me my vocation now, at fifteen, it was because He wanted me to enter now and not wait." - Sr. Kristen

My old spiritual director and i have started a podcast called 2RGathered. In it we talk about our faith in daily living. It's now on Apple, Spotify, Stitcher, Amazon, Downcast, Dwizabub and the NI network. Here's the fun part, we actually have anti Catholic haters bashing the show and getting people to give it a one star rating! They haven't listened, they are just getting people to rate it, https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-2rgathered-catholic-podcast/id1535705287. Our first episode is on the 33 day Consecration to St Joseph. Listen if you'd like, battle against t

The problem with what is happening is that everyone's conflating a lot of different groups that were present at the capitol. There was a legitimate protest with legitimate protest permits. you may think they are wrong about the thing they are protesting, but they had the right to assemble peaceably about it, as most of them went there to do. Then you have the speakers at that protest, most notably Trump. IMO Trump's speech at that protest engaged in basically all the tropes any speech / protest in Washington usually engages in, but because of the things that subsequently happened

You honestly don't think that certain members of the mob did not have an earnest intention to change the result of the vote? That seems to be a bit unreasonable, given that Trump has been attempting to overturn the result of the vote for the past month, and that his general indications to the crowd were to protest in order achieve this result. I mean, if "WWE fun and fantasy" were the only goal here, that could have been accomplished anywhere. In the streets of DC. On the White House Lawn. In front of the capital. There is no need to violently storm your way into the building, start

If the Church allows entry to Carmel at seventeen then it’s not too much for a seventeen-year-old who is called to enter. If God is calling her to join so young then it is her duty to answer. The strict rules have been laid down by the Church to be freely and joyfully followed by those who have chosen to do so.

Eating disorders are illnesses, and what you're describing is a symptom of that illness. Being ill is not a sin. However, this doesn't mean that taking magnesium is a good idea. People who have suffered from eating disorders often do have bowel and digestion problems, and laxatives will prolong the problem. They also jeopardise your recovery, which is very new and therefore fragile. You should speak to a doctor or dietitian with experience in treating these issues. I'll pray for you.

I think that this observation regarding accumulation of student debt is very important. Many/most communities are not in a position of paying off student debt nor do othey wish to do so. Perhaps staying at home and attending a local community college/university may be a good solution. Increasingly, many students are doing just this, as the costs of higher education mount.

x2 The vocation/recruitment team has almost certainly dealt with applicants in the same situation. You should be seeking their advice and the advice of your spiritual director. Of course your parents have a large amount of input as long as you are a minor. Concerning the idea of preventing entrance or denying a person’s vocation: making an application and entrance into a community are not the same. In general the application process will result in an acceptance, denial, or you being asked to wait until a later date to revisit the possibility. You are free to turn down an accept

I certainly don’t want to give any bad or misleading advice but I have always understood that parents do not have the right to keep an adult child from pursuing a vocation. Whether your age and maturity level at this moment qualify you as an adult is something I couldn’t answer, but in the end your vocation is not in your parents’ hands. If you are truly called to Carmel right out of high school then I would definitely continue speaking with your parents, spiritual director, and community about this. I am in a somewhat similar situation. I wanted to enter straight out of school but I took a

@profer_lumen_cæcisI'm going through a similar situation right now too! I can't add anything to what's already been said, except to trust that God will get you where He wants you to be, in His way and in His time. If He wants you to enter religious life out of high school, it will happen! And if not, then He has some reason for wanting you to go to college first. Praying for you!

Continue to pray as you finish High School, and cheerfully go to college and study. While you are learning and growing intellectually, continue to talk with your parents noting what you see as positive in the world and contrasting that with your continued spiritual growth and desire to discern your vocation in the religious life. Your parents are worried because of your youth. They would probably not want you to marry next year either. Trust that they (and God) have your best interests in mind and surrender to God's will, making good use of each day, and knowing that when your parents see y

Yes, patience! A virtue so necessary to discernment and sometimes so difficult to practice when you're so ready to give everything to Jesus! Lætata sum in his quæ dicta sunt mihi in domum Domini ibimus. I'm so happy for you, @profer_lumen_cæcis, and I am praying for you! Good luck on your application.

no. but she's dead, so I guess we should pray for her.

Not knowing the type of community you feel called to enter, it's a bit hard to declare either positively or negatively that a college education, whether partial, or taking a full degree, would be beneficial in your religious life. But [1] all forms education and experience are in fact beneficial to any and everyone, and [2] if you are interested in a community with an active apostolate, getting advanced education in the area in which they serve, such as education or nursing, is a definite plus. Even vocational studies can be of help. In the religious life there's a need even in contemplativ

College is not for everyone. You shouldn't feel that you have to go to college just because you were a good student and then received a large scholarship. I'm in a similar situation as profer_lumen_caecis: I wanted to enter religious life straight after high school, but my parents are making me go to college first. Thanks be to God, I've been offered a large scholarship, so student debt won't be an obstacle to entering the convent. However, college itself I do see as an obstacle, especially since my heart isn't in it and I just want to enter as soon as possible. Though I've always been a good

Well first I agree with you that there are probably a lot of folks who just got caught up in the "WWE fantasy". Sure, people just want to vent frustration or whatever. I'll grant you that there were probably a lot of those folks there. It's kind of like when the more serious BLM guys go out with the intention of achieving particular political objectives, but then you have a bunch of guys join in who just want to get a TV without paying for it. I also understand your point about not having a legit chance of being able to change the election. Basically you see people attempting something th

Personally speaking I think it's far too young to actually enter a convent. And too young to get married. Most places don't accept such young people. Twenty one should be the absolute minimum age I think.

You have an opportunity to go to college and get a degree debt-free and you’re seriously not planning to take it?

You can confess anything to your priest. But imo this does not meet the criteria for mortal sin. If there is any sin involved it is venial and can be forgiven with a private prayer and firm purpose of amendment. Or the devout use of holy water! What God wants is for you to be healthy and happy. For you this means bring under a doctor's care, if you aren't already.

Wow, thank you all ever so much for the replies, advice, and prayers! I honestly cannot thank you all enough! Since there are a wide varieties of topics to cover in a response, I'm going to work on sending some direct messages if that is alright One thing I do want to make clear, however, is that I am not hesitant to attend college because of worry of student debt. Thankfully because of a scholarship opportunity I don't believe that would be the case, and thus my parents also would not be paying for college. Again, I am so grateful for the responses! Please know that

Banned for having a cooler avatar then me.

I totally agree.... my wife is Pentecostal and some of those people are off the scale gifted..... I've been researching them for twenty years.......... and Jesus really likes those people and seems to be showing them some secret information........

Thank you very much for the link, I have just listened to the whole discussion. The Thomistic argument comes to a life there somehow i.e. it does not feel cold/ inhumane/legalistic as it often happens, something I dread. It was helpful (although I cannot say I agree about everything) and aided my own thinking. It is also good to see that there are still Roman Catholics who refuse to engage in self-serving hypocrisy.

It is possible (perhaps probable) a community may not accept an applicant a second time. Depending on the reasons for not entering they may or may not. They may also allowed for a delayed entrance. I would not advocate a strategy of applying with an intent to turn down an acceptance, rather was just giving an overview of the possible application outcomes. It is advisable for any discerner/applicant to discuss their situation with the community and seek their advice on how to proceed. They will be the ones to express their preferences given the situation. It is

Your comments do not hit close to home in the least. I am not a Democrat. I did not vote for Biden. As for the rest of it, I’m not going back and forth with you. You are full of it, not worth the time.

Regina Laudis in Bethlehem, CT. The sing the Gregorian Chant in Latin. Many members with advanced degrees. I strongly suspect that college is a requirement. Benedictines and Dominicans in particular appear to support the life of the mind. The Benedictines still support a number of colleges and universities and would be happy to receive people who would like to teach there. Their tendency to remain in place tends to support llarge institutions which in the past meant large libraries. They also support the arts and artists among their members. This is not to say that other orders or c

Fear not! You can compliment a fellow male without folks assuming you are a homosexual. There is no need to follow a compliment with a homophobic statement to assert your ‘straightness.’

Father Rob and I are getting some great feedback about our episode on the Rosary. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-2rgathered-catholic-podcast/id1535705287

don’t worry it’s just a vaccine

I do believe if Christians and their Churches made a firm statement (some time ago) that we will refuse to use the vaccines with the embryo cells it would make a difference. State governments are interested in total vaccination so they would invest more into ethical vaccines development. I am very put off by the argument done by some high rank clergy about "the remoteness of the evil act" hence a vaccine is OK. First, it is nonsense; time passed does not reduce the evil. It seems to me this argument works as an anesthesia of a feeling via hypocrisy. This is quite dangerous because ones st

Wrong. Mrna vaccine tech has been tested in humans for years and was in non human subject trials years before that. I believe the Zika vaccine, the leading contender for marketing, is mRna. It's true there are no mrna vaccines currently on the market other than covid. But it's hardly brand new.

Oh my gosh, I forgot I posted this. Yes, I think I did find it. Thank you so much for the prayers.

I can understand the confusion but it sounds like she was invited to apply, which I'm pretty sure is normal and standard and what happened to me. She probably spoke about her desire to enter with the prioress, who likely helped her discern and finally invited her to apply when they both came to a mutual agreement on the entry. She is free to turn down the offer or ask to postpone her application. At least, this is what's happening in my case so I'm sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth, @profer_lumen_cæcis ! Congratulations! I assure you of my prayers and hope you'll spare me a couple, too!

@Lea, When I spoke to Rev. Mother, she told me that she would love for me to apply and that when I am ready I should (so, not quite "asking" per se in the sense that you mean, but I had asked her for guidance and advice which she gave me ). She has given me nothing but freedom to discern God's call, but she also wanted to give me a little nudge

Thank you both so much for your replies! I feel less nervous now, as the details you mentioned I've already discussed with her Rev. Mother (who was the one who asked me to apply), so now it will just be up to the Council, I suppose! If you wouldn't mind, I would very much appreciate a prayer or two during this time Thank you, both, again, and please know that you are in my prayers! Blessed Epiphany season and a joyous new year to you both! ~Gertrude

I too ‘hope you have a spiritual director, pastor or other wise and trusted person to help guide you.’ There are many many good institutes, both religious and secular; the unhealthy are few and worth avoiding. The length of the initial formation program should give you a variety of experiences and plenty of time for a mutual discernment of fitness. There may also be opportunities for your family and/or friends to visit you for an up close look. One thing to keep in mind is recruitment and formation personnel are known to monitor public vocation forums. It’ can be prudent to keep a

I don't know what applies today, but a priest used to be able to enroll one in the brown scapular. Just did a quick Google and the Carmelite website below can answer all and any questions re the brown scapular and enrollment - and yes, any priest can still enroll any Catholic in the scapular. The brown scapular is not only a sacramental, it asks formal enrollment. https://www.sistersofcarmel.com/faqs-the-brown-scapular/#who-may-be-invested (another quick Google and these nuns do seem to be Catholic). A particularly beautiful and informative website: https://sistersofcarmel.org/

Generally speaking not. However, there have been some precedents of Russian Eastern Orthodox being allowed into various Third Orders. One of such examples is Russian translator Natalia Trauberg (she is well known for her translations of Chesterton and Lewis). She was brought up in the Soviet Union by her nanny as an Eastern Orthodox (that made her life quite difficult). Then she married a nominal Catholic and moved to Lithuania. Her Eastern Orthodox confessor gave her his blessing to worship with Catholics and receive spiritual advice from the Roman Catholic priests (at that time Russian Ortho