Disappointment In Discernment

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1325370090' post='2360820']
faith -- is that you in the photo?
[/quote]

Yep

[Lilllabettt]

Joyful - I did consider the more popular teaching orders earlier in discernment - before I entered the convent at all, in fact. A major barrier for me was the feasibility of balancing a teaching apostolate with religious life. Obviously it can be done and Sisters do it every day. But now that I am a full-time teacher responsible for my own classroom I find it is an even bigger mystery to me how that can be accomplished.

In addition - My experience is similar to faith's in that I also learned more about myself and our religion - and I realized I am more "liberal" than I thought! By that I mean I appreciate the flexibility in communities that are a bit more "modernized" than the most popular communities tend to be.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Lilllabettt

[Sarah147]

[quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1325375826' post='2360882']
Yep
[/quote]



[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1325376419' post='2360893']
Joyful - I did consider the more popular teaching orders earlier in discernment - before I entered the convent at all, in fact. A major barrier for me was the feasibility of balancing a teaching apostolate with religious life. Obviously it can be done and Sisters do it every day. But now that I am a full-time teacher responsible for my own classroom I find it is an even bigger mystery to me how that can be accomplished.

In addition - My experience is similar to faith's in that I also learned more about myself and our religion - and I realized I am more "liberal" than I thought! By that I mean I appreciate the flexibility in communities that are a bit more "modernized" than the most popular communities tend to be.
[/quote]

I can see how you have a lot to consider in your discernment.

I wonder that, too, with the RSM, how they balance prayer, community time, and full-time work... There musn't be much time to breath.

Edited January 1, 2012 by JoyfulLife

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1325376419' post='2360893']
Joyful - I did consider the more popular teaching orders earlier in discernment - before I entered the convent at all, in fact. A major barrier for me was the feasibility of balancing a teaching apostolate with religious life. Obviously it can be done and Sisters do it every day. But now that I am a full-time teacher responsible for my own classroom I find it is an even bigger mystery to me.

In addition - My experience is similar to faith's in that I also learned more about myself and our religion - and I realized I am more "liberal" than I thought! By that I mean I appreciate the flexibility in communities that are a bit more "modernized" than the most popular communities tend to be.
[/quote]

This is a really good observation... learning more about our religion and appreciating flexibility in community. I have learned so much about myself since leaving the last community, which was much more liberal than the previous one - almost at opposite ends of the spectrum. And when I had to leave Kirk Edge (very trad), I started attending the Latin Mass and my whole focus was trad. The priest there was very opposed to anything liberal. Then I entered a convent that was the polar opposite and they were actually antagonistic when I asked for a Latin Mass priest as a spiritual director and refused to allow it. I saw first hand some of the divisions in the Church (which one can also see in the brawling video of the Orthodox priests) and I realised that I didn't want to be so polarised in any direction that I looked down upon those in the same Church who preferred to do things differently (and legitimately). It was very liberating for me spiritually and made me love the Church even more but also want to pray for her more too.

My present parish community isn't nearly as traditional as I would like it, but I am just so grateful to have a priest who is kind and sincere and works very hard, and rural communities that show true Christian spirit towards each other.

The community I am going to visit in a couple of weeks is a combination of traditional aspects I like, and yet has an openness and flexibility in their outlook that embraces rather than excludes. They have Novus Ordo Mass but sing parts of it in Latin. The article I just posted called "Build it and they will kneel" is the kind of attitude that I embrace... where the pastor put back the altar rail and said that people could stand or kneel, receive on the hand or the tongue. Not excluding, but embracing. The best of tradition with the acceptance of change.

So maybe disappointment in discernment also opens one up to more self-examination and personal growth. Faith has seen herself change, so have you Lilllabettt and I know I have, so this is just one of the postive things that can come out of something unpleasant?

[Sister Marie]

In addition to what was already written above about growth in flexibility and in knowledge (which I thought was absolutely enlightening and encouraging!), I just wanted to bring up the possibility that you could be disappointed in the place God is calling you... perhaps they are not observant enough... liberal enough... conservative enough... traditional enough... prayerful enough... apostolic enough... monastic enough...

God could very well be calling you to give your most complete and full self to Him in a place that you don't see yourself enjoying at this point in time. God definitely is calling you to an imperfect and flawed life... because regardless of the community there will always be people, things, practices, ideas, apostolates, and prayers that are not your cup of tea.

You could have an image in your mind right now of exactly what you want and somehow you have decided that it is what God wants as well, not consciously or on purpose, but we as humans have a great propensity to make God like us instead of us like God. Sometimes instead of listening to God's voice in the quiet we hear what we think is Him in our preferences, the preferences of others, the seeming "right" way to do things.

Be open to letting God stretch and mold you... it happens to me most frequently when I feel uncomfortable or disappointed in something... it means God is trying to say something to me.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Sister Marie' timestamp='1325378020' post='2360918']
In addition to what was already written above about growth in flexibility and in knowledge (which I thought was absolutely enlightening and encouraging!), I just wanted to bring up the possibility that you could be disappointed in the place God is calling you... perhaps they are not observant enough... liberal enough... conservative enough... traditional enough... prayerful enough... apostolic enough... monastic enough...

God could very well be calling you to give your most complete and full self to Him in a place that you don't see yourself enjoying at this point in time. God definitely is calling you to an imperfect and flawed life... because regardless of the community there will always be people, things, practices, ideas, apostolates, and prayers that are not your cup of tea.

You could have an image in your mind right now of exactly what you want and somehow you have decided that it is what God wants as well, not consciously or on purpose, but we as humans have a great propensity to make God like us instead of us like God. Sometimes instead of listening to God's voice in the quiet we hear what we think is Him in our preferences, the preferences of others, the seeming "right" way to do things.

Be open to letting God stretch and mold you... it happens to me most frequently when I feel uncomfortable or disappointed in something... it means God is trying to say something to me.
[/quote]

Good points as always Sr Marie. I think though that faith and I were talking not about 'choosing' a community based on our preferences, but about being led by God towards the place where we belong (where we 'fit'). The last community I entered was nothing like what I wanted, but I assumed that if I just entered anyway, God would work things out. The fact is that they resented me for being 'too traditional' even though I tried very hard to accept everything that I found as it was. They didn't ask me to leave, but one person who had authority over me just made the situation so hostile and abusive that leaving was the only choice I had if I wanted to preserve my sanity and health. I sought help over a period of six months from the superior, a medical practitioner and a psychologist before making the decision, which was one of the hardest of my life, since I felt that this was my 'last chance' at religious life. But God works in ways we can't imagine. I have maintained a very close friendship with the Prioress of the previous community despite all that happened to me, and have been led into a relationship with another community (and another Order actually) that appears to be a much better fit for us all.

So, yes, we mustn't think that we are going to enter the community of our dreams with no adjustments needed, but trying to wear a size 7 shoe with a size 9 foot will only work for so long before one's feet start to rebel! A size 8 1/2 or a 10 maybe, with little adjustments on our part but not a 7!

As always in life, it is trying to find a balance while also trying to find the will of God for ourselves. If we were great saints (if I were) then perhaps it wouldn't matter if we were being victimised or abused because we could turn that into a grace (as we try to do with any suffering), but speaking for myself, I would not be able to serve God effectively if I had allowed that to continue at my last convent. It would have warped me into becoming a bitter and resentful old nun, like the one who was abusing me. I could see why she did it and where her pain came from, but that didn't help at the time... it was twisting me inside.

I am not disagreeing with you, just adding some disclaimers I guess so no one feels bad about choosing to leave religious life for necessary (in their minds) reasons. Yes, we probably do indulge ourselves and our self-wills too much, but there are also abuses that go on that aren't always addressed as well. If we have to leave (or are asked to leave) then we can at least try to use the rejection and disappointment to bring ourselves closer to God in love and trust, and to grow and mature as individuals in our faith.

[Sister Marie]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1325379555' post='2360932']
Good points as always Sr Marie. I think though that faith and I were talking not about 'choosing' a community based on our preferences, but about being led by God towards the place where we belong (where we 'fit'). The last community I entered was nothing like what I wanted, but I assumed that if I just entered anyway, God would work things out. The fact is that they resented me for being 'too traditional' even though I tried very hard to accept everything that I found as it was. They didn't ask me to leave, but one person who had authority over me just made the situation so hostile and abusive that leaving was the only choice I had if I wanted to preserve my sanity and health. I sought help over a period of six months from the superior, a medical practitioner and a psychologist before making the decision, which was one of the hardest of my life, since I felt that this was my 'last chance' at religious life. But God works in ways we can't imagine. I have maintained a very close friendship with the Prioress of the previous community despite all that happened to me, and have been led into a relationship with another community (and another Order actually) that appears to be a much better fit for us all.

So, yes, we mustn't think that we are going to enter the community of our dreams with no adjustments needed, but trying to wear a size 7 shoe with a size 9 foot will only work for so long before one's feet start to rebel! A size 8 1/2 or a 10 maybe, with little adjustments on our part but not a 7!

As always in life, it is trying to find a balance while also trying to find the will of God for ourselves. If we were great saints (if I were) then perhaps it wouldn't matter if we were being victimised or abused because we could turn that into a grace (as we try to do with any suffering), but speaking for myself, I would not be able to serve God effectively if I had allowed that to continue at my last convent. It would have warped me into becoming a bitter and resentful old nun, like the one who was abusing me. I could see why she did it and where her pain came from, but that didn't help at the time... it was twisting me inside.

I am not disagreeing with you, just adding some disclaimers I guess so no one feels bad about choosing to leave religious life for necessary (in their minds) reasons. Yes, we probably do indulge ourselves and our self-wills too much, but there are also abuses that go on that aren't always addressed as well. If we have to leave (or are asked to leave) then we can at least try to use the rejection and disappointment to bring ourselves closer to God in love and trust, and to grow and mature as individuals in our faith.
[/quote]

I agree with you completely nunsense... thank you for adding the disclaimers! I think, using your shoe analogy, what I was trying to say was that sometimes we want to fit into those nice size six stilettos because they are very stylish, make us look taller, and are all around cute, when we really are a size 9 loafer kind of girl and the other way around as well... we just didn't know it until we tried.

I am very sorry for the situation you were in before because of that superior - and I would never say that that was alright. I have tried too hard at times to spiritualize some suffering that really couldn't be. There are things, like abuse and victimization that, while we can offer them to God, we should not endure as a means to our sanctification, because as you said, they rarely allow any growth or virtue, just stagnation and pain. God never desires us to be abused or victimized to be sanctified.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Sister Marie' timestamp='1325380347' post='2360939']
I agree with you completely nunsense... thank you for adding the disclaimers! I think, using your shoe analogy, what I was trying to say was that sometimes we want to fit into those nice size six stilettos because they are very stylish, make us look taller, and are all around cute, when we really are a size 9 loafer kind of girl and the other way around as well... we just didn't know it until we tried.

I am very sorry for the situation you were in before because of that superior - and I would never say that that was alright. I have tried too hard at times to spiritualize some suffering that really couldn't be. There are things, like abuse and victimization that, while we can offer them to God, we should not endure as a means to our sanctification, because as you said, they rarely allow any growth or virtue, just stagnation and pain. God never desires us to be abused or victimized to be sanctified.
[/quote]

Thanks for understanding Sr Marie. One of the good things about what I have been through is that I have a lot more understanding about suffering than I had before. I also 'spiritualise' things because let's face it, we all want to be saints. The reality is that not all of us are ever going to be able to take the abuse that someone like St John of the Cross did, or even if we are, it might take a long time and a lot of purification before we are at that stage of sanctity. I certainly am not at this point yet though, and that's a good thing for me to know. The lives of the saints are very inspiring but most of us need a lot of time to even get 'nearby' where they live! Before I can handle abuse, I need to learn how to deal with simple correction or criticism!

And I love your extension of the shoe analogy. I never thought of it like that, but it might be a perfect description of my attempt to live at Kirk Edge, which was the 'ideal' Carmelite community for me - old fashioned, traditional and very austere. I wanted it but they didn't want me. It was a designer high heeled shoe made four sizes too small for my poor fat foot which can only handle flats! I hope I can find the loafer in my size that God has prepared for me.

Thanks again. you make me laugh at myself too, and I love that.

[Sarah147]

[quote name='Sister Marie' timestamp='1325380347' post='2360939']
There are things, like abuse and victimization that, while we can offer them to God, we should not endure as a means to our sanctification, because as you said, they rarely allow any growth or virtue, just stagnation and pain. God never desires us to be abused or victimized to be sanctified.
[/quote]

I hadn't thought of it like that before...

[i<3franciscans]

[quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1325375826' post='2360882']
Yep
[/quote]

I am not hijacking, but just a quick note... Faith I love the photo! And you have a religious tag---- So happy for you! Many prayers as you turn a new page in life!!!