Discalced Carmelite Nun Communities

[marigold]

I was never in Carmel but discovered later that many of our customs were based on/very Carmelite like.

 

We addressed each other as Sister on all occasions. Postulants were Little Sister.

 

We were never to ask for anything for our personal use. The etiquette around this took some learning.

For example, it was okay to ask for the soap powder if you were doing the Laundry, because that was a communal enterprise and not for personal use.

We had a General Permission each day which facilitated things like not having to walk all the way up from the veg patch to the house to find a Superior so you could ask for a drink of water. We later said in Recreation 'Mother I made use of the GP for a drink of water today' or whatever it was. 

In refectory, there were never any condiments, and the bowls/serving plates containing the food were passed down the table once for us to serve ourselves. If there was any left the bowl/plate could be passed a second time but you couldn't ask for it, you had to wait till someone noticed your empty plate and offered it to you.

Once a month ( when I entered and for about 10 years after that) we knelt in the community room and asked R Mother "From His bounty Mother may we take for personal use X,Y, and Z". This was things like toiletries, personal products etc.

These items later appeared in one's cell.

This was later changed  to a private note dropped off at R Mother's office, with the same formula, but written.

 

If a large item of clothing, bed linen etc needed mending, it was sent to the mending room. Here Sister would decide if it was worth mending or needed replacement. If it needed replacement she would whisper to you to put a note in the Procure with a note pinned to it as no longer being fit for purpose.

We darned our own habits and underwear etc during Recreation. There was also a basket in the room containing sundry items that needed mending which one could take up if there was no other project you were busy with.

 

 

When it is available (Chocolate) - ours was once a year on our private 8 day retreat.

 

Oh, I lie, we had a box of sweets passed round in the community room on Christmas day and Easter Sunday. But one of the last things Mother did in her private conference with one at the start of the retreat was to hand over a big block of chocolate, no permission required to eat it all for one's self! The end of the retreat also saw us receive anything new we needed for the year, a habit tunic or scapular, a new sheet, fabric to sew a new apron.......

 

However, not all communities have these practices and not all of them have kept them in place.

 

In the summer harvest we had permission to eat the fruit as we worked picking it too. Nothing like a massive warm peach falling ripely into one's hand and conveyed to the mouth - such a treat!!

 

 

I wondered about over indulgence too, untill I ate my fill of cherries with inevitable consequences and much excusing 'to attend the personal office' as going to the loo was called.

By the next year I had learned my lesson!

 

We also had 'gouter' (afternoon eats) in harvest season, when any slightly over ripe fruit or anything that could not be pickled, canned, bottled or preserved was put out to be eaten.

In '76 when there was a heatwave in Europe, we were all in fruity heaven we had so much fruit, and it appeared at every meal and every excuse for a snack.

 

Max I am going a little starry-eyed over these anecdotes of yours. It sounds WONDERFUL. The balance between the 'salt' of asceticism and 'sweetness' of treats and rest stops along the way is something I've had cause to think a lot about... too much of either and the life is unpalatable. But your former community sounds like it had a really lovely balance. More than a little envious. Keep the stories coming ;)

[maximillion]

I was saying to AnneLine just the other day that when I was discerning and visited Carmel (Kirk Edge) I ran away almost yelling at the Lord to please no, don't ask that of me, because I was so terrified of the austerity of the lifestyle.

 

In my running I instead ran right into the arms of a community that, without the erimitical aspects, was indeed very Caremelite like!

 

I am sure like in so many instances, I over fondly recall a past I loved, but yes, until the rashness that descended and blew this life apart, it was a wonderful mix.

 

The first year I was fully Professed I hurt my back carrying wood up the back stairs. This wood was providing frames for separate cubicles in the night noviciate - until then there had been simple curtains separating the bed spaces. As a result I was forbidden our usual Lenten penitential practices. I had much looked forward to joining in these in full for the first time and was both disappointed and, as I recall, a little rebellious, arguing with R Mother about it.

Her response was to have me 'beg the grace of a repentant and obedient spirit' each day, aloud, at the end of recreation. She wouldn't even let me kneel to say it but insisted I sit, all prim and comfortable, on a chair.

It really got to me because I felt I was kind of reaping the benefits of the Sister's penances without being able to join in myself. I won't ever forget how that smarted!

[maximillion]

You've got me going now, but I promise after this I'll stop.......

 

In the noviciate, as I mentioned, there was a basket of sewing, the odd veil - (we didn't have individual veils but there was a pile of them in the Procure and one took the next one off the pile when it was time to launder the one you'd been wearing). I remember fishing this very darned and almost falling apart white veil out of the basket and eyeing it. I didn't know it was one of our NM's favourite 'humility/poverty' penances.

When one had done something against either humility or poverty, it was common to be given the task of 'mending' this un-mendable item.

Not only was it an impossible task, but every one of one's noviciate companions instantly knew, more or less, what your transgression was when they saw you sewing it.

It took a few goes of plying my needle in those scraps of fabric before I stopped feeling my face glowing, and learned to take more care of 'our' duster/habit/sandals/table napkin or whatever.

 

The first time I dropped and broke a plate in refectory when I was server is forever etched on my memory too.

We were schooled in advance re this occurrence to pick up the pieces and kneel holding them until R Mother gave the knock.

She was very merciful to me the first time and I hardly knelt before she gave me the knock, but I was shaking.

This is the same person who as a student nurse told some wise guy consultant surgeon where to get off when he shouted at her in the OR.........!

 

[graciandelamadrededios]

Im not sure if this is the right Carmelite thread for this question (there was a customs thread I cant seem to find) but its going in here anyway.

 

What is the common way for Sisters to address each other?  I thought it would be "Sister so and so could you pass me that" but have heard that Carmels omit the sister part and jsut say "so and so could you pass me that"

 

Anyone know more about this?

 

The thread which I started is called Carmelite Custom: http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/129496-carmelite-customs/page-12

 

Please refer to my reply on this thread.  Thanks!

 

Gracian

[graciandelamadrededios]

Visit the important locations in the life of St. Teresa, you have to see, now by internet, amesome

 

http://www.lugaresteresianos.com/

 

 

Thanks for sharing this website.  One can still see the spikes on the choir grille of St. Josephs Convent in Avila.

[brandelynmarie]

Max, i second Marigold! Please give us more stories! Even if you have to start another thread! I'm enjoying them so much :blush:

[maximillion]

OK instead of hijacking, I'll start a thread......

[Chiquitunga]

posting these here instead of the Customs thread since not related to customs much. old pictures from the construction of the Indianapolis Carmel, now Bishop Simon Brute College Seminary

 

 

 

 

[truthfinder]

It's pictures like that last one which really show that nuns work hard - something that the world seems to forget

[graciandelamadrededios]

posting these here instead of the Customs thread since not related to customs much. old pictures from the construction of the Indianapolis Carmel, now Bishop Simon Brute College Seminary

 

 

 

 

 

Those photos are wonderful Chiqui! Thanks for sharing them!

 

According to the book on history of Indianapolis Carmel "Cloister and Community - Life within a Carmelite Monastery" written by Mary Jo Weaver, the monastery was shaped based on European Traditions.  It was consciously designed to look like the city of Avila with its parapets and towers.  It portrays a medieval personality with castle-like-turrets, a high stone wall surrounding the monastery and a grand monastic church.  It looks formidable but in a good way.

 

It is true that cloistered nuns are very hands on during a new foundation and they contribute to the manual work in the completion of their monastery.  I have read books regarding this ranging from Mother Catherine Thomas in the USA, Nuns in India, Nuns in Australia, to our own Nuns in the Philippines where there are currently 22 Carmels.

[graciandelamadrededios]

posting these here instead of the Customs thread since not related to customs much. old pictures from the construction of the Indianapolis Carmel, now Bishop Simon Brute College Seminary

 

 

 

 

 

This monastery is called Carmel of the Resurrection and was founded in 1922 by Mother Teresa of the Trinity from Bettendorf Carmel. 

 

This Carmel gave birth to two daughter Carmels: Terre Haute Carmel in 1947 and Des Plaines Carmel in 1959.

[Sponsa-Christi]

You've got me going now, but I promise after this I'll stop.......

 

In the noviciate, as I mentioned, there was a basket of sewing, the odd veil - (we didn't have individual veils but there was a pile of them in the Procure and one took the next one off the pile when it was time to launder the one you'd been wearing). I remember fishing this very darned and almost falling apart white veil out of the basket and eyeing it. I didn't know it was one of our NM's favourite 'humility/poverty' penances.

When one had done something against either humility or poverty, it was common to be given the task of 'mending' this un-mendable item.

Not only was it an impossible task, but every one of one's noviciate companions instantly knew, more or less, what your transgression was when they saw you sewing it.

It took a few goes of plying my needle in those scraps of fabric before I stopped feeling my face glowing, and learned to take more care of 'our' duster/habit/sandals/table napkin or whatever.

 

The first time I dropped and broke a plate in refectory when I was server is forever etched on my memory too.

We were schooled in advance re this occurrence to pick up the pieces and kneel holding them until R Mother gave the knock.

She was very merciful to me the first time and I hardly knelt before she gave me the knock, but I was shaking.

This is the same person who as a student nurse told some wise guy consultant surgeon where to get off when he shouted at her in the OR.........!

 

Okay, I apologize for continuing this off-topic tangent, but I have a sincere question. How do these sorts of disciplinary practices---i.e., ones that are penances involving an impractical task and/or public humiliation---"work" spiritually? That is, how exactly does once grow spiritually through these kinds of customs?

 

I guess for me, I can't imagine ever feeling at home in a community where I knew that, even if I was trying my best to live a faithful religious life, I would be made to feel humiliated over minor infractions. It seems like this would foster fear and defensiveness rather than sisterly communion or openness towards God. (Things like mending a veil that's obviously beyond repair also seem like kind of a waste of time and resources that could have been spent on a task that was actually necessary, and a waste of emotional energy that might have perhaps been more fruitfully directed towards prayer.)

 

I truly don't mean these questions to sound challenging or offensive; this is for me an honest attempt at understanding. I am happy in my vocation as a consecrated virgin, so my questions are more academic than anything else. But I would still be interested to learn why some religious did see these kinds of customs as being helpful or inspiring.

[oremus1]

Okay, I apologize for continuing this off-topic tangent, but I have a sincere question. How do these sorts of disciplinary practices---i.e., ones that are penances involving an impractical task and/or public humiliation---"work" spiritually? That is, how exactly does once grow spiritually through these kinds of customs?

 

I guess for me, I can't imagine ever feeling at home in a community where I knew that, even if I was trying my best to live a faithful religious life, I would be made to feel humiliated over minor infractions. It seems like this would foster fear and defensiveness rather than sisterly communion or openness towards God. (Things like mending a veil that's obviously beyond repair also seem like kind of a waste of time and resources that could have been spent on a task that was actually necessary, and a waste of emotional energy that might have perhaps been more fruitfully directed towards prayer.)

 

I truly don't mean these questions to sound challenging or offensive; this is for me an honest attempt at understanding. I am happy in my vocation as a consecrated virgin, so my questions are more academic than anything else. But I would still be interested to learn why some religious did see these kinds of customs as being helpful or inspiring.

I so agree. Or the Jesuits who, to foster obedience, made the novices water a stick planted in the ground. Why??

Sponsa what do you think of the Chapter of Faults (announcing publically your external sins).
 

I agree with Sponsa totally and would value an explanation also. Seems like a waste of time. I know some CVs who left due to extereme versions of stuff like that. they said the convent ended up more about politics than sanctity.


 

[truthfinder]

I hope Sr. Mary Catherine chimes in on this - she wrote a novel on nuns with the chapter of faults - would like to see her opinion from "the inside"

[Sponsa-Christi]

I just want to re-emphasize here that I did not mean my last comment as a challenge---I really am going for an honest attempt at understanding.

 

In the past, there have been a number of customs in religious life (or at least in certain kinds of religious life, or in particular religious communities) which seemed off-putting to me, but which later made sense once I heard them explained. The chapter of faults is a good example of this. When I first heard of such a thing, the idea of it really sounded pretty horrible to me. But in reading books like Sr. Mary Catharine's novel, I came to understand how, when carried out in the proper spirit, this custom could serve to foster sisterly charity in community. Another example would be the practice of enclosure itself. At first, the idea seemed like a pointless and unduly painful sacrifice. But in reading writings by various cloistered nuns, I came to see how enclosure does indeed serve a real purpose, and is actually quite a beautiful thing.

 

I obviously don't feel called to observe either of these things personally, but I am still glad that I understand the value they have for other people who are called to these practices. Also, I'm glad I came to a proper understanding of them before I became a CV, so that my own vocation was a positive choice made in peace and freedom, as opposed to my simply avoiding things that scared me.

 

However, in recent years it seems like I've been hearing about customs in religious life (though mostly pre-Vatican II religious life) of superiors issuing "punishments" specifically designed to humiliate for minor or even accidental infractions. To me, this does not seem healthy. But I'm wondering if it's seeming this way to me because such things are indeed genuinely unhealthy for everyone...or if they do actually have some benefit for the specific group of people who are called to them, and I'm just missing this because I've never come across the proper understanding of these kinds of customs. 

Edited August 14, 2014 by Sponsa-Christi