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Yinepu Sanctimonialis

Hi everyone! I just popped in to see how everyone is, and thought I'd let you know that I decided to stay at the community and am officially a novice. Unfortunately that means paperwork, so I'm out of the monastery for several weeks, getting my documents in order. It's a pain, but on the upside I can while away some time on VS, and I even have pocket money for chocolate :)

You had got the sacred invitation, opened your heart and letting the Holy Spirit made a miracle with you . I wish the best for your future life, stay strong and be happy :)

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Hi everyone! I just popped in to see how everyone is, and thought I'd let you know that I decided to stay at the community and am officially a novice. Unfortunately that means paperwork, so I'm out of

By your prayers, I have a paperwork interview on Christmas Eve, and 1-2 weeks after that, I should be free to go home to the monastery.

Just wanted to say thanks to you guys on VS for being such a great ongoing part of my life. I'm logging out at the end of this weekend, and going back to the monastery during the coming week, and hope

Liturgically, yes, it's the same service. The wedding rings are their own thing though. The emphasis is slightly different because liturgically and 'monastically' they are like the Orthodox, but they had to conform certain things to current Roman Catholic norms. For example, for us, a novice or dokimos is from the time you're accepted into the sisterhood until the time you are tonsured a rasophore (robe-bearer, which I mentioned briefly above). The Bridegroomers realised that they were required by the Catholic Church to have a 'canonical year' of novitiate, so they changed the emphasis so that the 'dokimos' period is more like an extended postulancy. Thus the tonsure to the raso becomes the point at which they do their canonical year, hence the mention in the post about Srs. Emilia and Iliana that they would be having limited contact with the outside world for the next year. It's kind of like Catholicised Orthodoxy, and I say that with the greatest fondness for this community.

Fascinating! 

I'm wondering if wedding rings are a distinctively Latin thing, since in women's professions it's generally an allusion to the Roman Pontifical's rite for the consecration of virgins. 

One question I have for Marigold after reading the vocation page for Christ the Bridegroom monastery...can you explain what a "Megaloschemos" is? I don't think we have any kind of equivalent in the west. 

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Sr Mary Catharine OP

Fascinating! 

I'm wondering if wedding rings are a distinctively Latin thing, since in women's professions it's generally an allusion to the Roman Pontifical's rite for the consecration of virgins. 

One question I have for Marigold after reading the vocation page for Christ the Bridegroom monastery...can you explain what a "Megaloschemos" is? I don't think we have any kind of equivalent in the west. 

Rings for profession aren't really a monastic custom. There is no "pure" ritual for any form of consecrated life. Everyone borrows from everyone else! It's not new! You can see it in very old ceremonials!  Here, we don't refer to our profession as a wedding or our rings as wedding rings. They are professions rings signifying our total and exclusive consecration to Christ. The custom of Dominican nuns wearing rings has been not been consistent and of course having temporary vows is new for us as well. To this day a ring is optional and a sister may choose not to wear a ring.

I believe Macrina, one of the early Mothers of the Desert wore a ring with her crucifix over her heart.

You're right; there is no Western equivalent of the Great Schema.

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One question I have for Marigold after reading the vocation page for Christ the Bridegroom monastery...can you explain what a "Megaloschemos" is? I don't think we have any kind of equivalent in the west. 

My immediate thought on seeing that word was these. I love the idea of them lumbering round Eastern Catholic and Orthodox monasteries, but sadly I suspect I'm in for a disappointment.

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Rings for profession aren't really a monastic custom. There is no "pure" ritual for any form of consecrated life. Everyone borrows from everyone else! It's not new! 

Very true! I just find it fascinating to learn about who borrowed what from whom.  

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Truth is stranger than fiction. I literally have to change my legal name in order to get my documents all matched up...

That is an unusual situation. I'm guessing the documents that have the different name can't be changed!

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Sr Mary Catharine OP

Many Carmelite communities have profession crosses, rather than rings, which they have in a pocket on their habit over their heart.

As we do! Then again, some monasteries wear it on their belt. The PCPA do that as well.

We wear ours under our scapular on our heart but it is given at clothing. I think you got a small crucifix at clothing and a large at profession. Shorter veil at 1st profession longer veil at Solemn. But after awhile that all gets mixed up.

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Fascinating! 

I'm wondering if wedding rings are a distinctively Latin thing, since in women's professions it's generally an allusion to the Roman Pontifical's rite for the consecration of virgins. 

One question I have for Marigold after reading the vocation page for Christ the Bridegroom monastery...can you explain what a "Megaloschemos" is? I don't think we have any kind of equivalent in the west. 

As Sr. MC said, Megaloschemos means Great Schema. (Does your canonist's education include any Greek, Sponsa? Just curious.) It's the signifying garment of the monastic, and the highest or fullest grade of Orthodox monasticism, though slightly different usages have developed over the centuries and in different places. Originally it was the only monastic garment, given at the one and only tonsure someone would ever receive, and showed that the person was no longer learning the monastic way but was already living that reality, and thus ready to leave his teacher and, usually, go and be a hermit by himself.

It's the yoke of Christ, and signifies total death to everything earthly; crucifixion in fact, and total belonging to Christ in anticipation of the Resurrection. For if we die with him, we believe shall also live with him. And I think there is a tradition in the Latin Church also of the profession and specifically the clothing aspect being linked to putting off the old man, belonging to the former manner of life and its desires, and being renewed putting on the new man, who is Christ? At least in the older orders? This is a strong element of the monastic profession for us. But anyway, the person who receives the Great Schema will have already been a monastic for a long, long time, and reached a certain mastery over his/her passions so that a life of uninterrupted prayer is possible. Along with the physical garment comes an expectation of a way of life that is basically eremitic, very ascetic and strict. For this reason, it's also known as the Angelic Schema - because the person wearing it is living a life like that of the angels, who are constantly praising God. In some strands of the tradition, it is given after several decades in the monastery; in others, only on the deathbed; and I believe the majority of Orthodox monks and nuns do not reach it. (And that's ok!)

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Btw, I thougt about you this semester, Marigold. We're studying Byzantine history, and the birth of orthodoxy (beginning from Justinian, and now we're at the birth of orthodoxy, Theodora and Michel III, etc...) :) 

Beginning from Justinian? That's weird. You should suggest that the birth of 'Orthodoxy' is either a) Pentecost, or b) the Great Schism of 1054, when the Patriarchate of Rome broke away from the rest of us, and we de facto became 'the Orthodox' in contrast to 'the Roman Catholics'...

You could also introduce the fact that the term 'Byzantine' was invented by a German guy called Hieronymus Wolf in the 1500s and has little real bearing on the East Roman Empire, which is what it sounds like you're ACTUALLY studying.

Critical thinking in education is a wonderful thing...

That is an unusual situation. I'm guessing the documents that have the different name can't be changed!

You're right. And I'm stressed <_<

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The birth of orthodoxy is a little part of our larger course, who is about the Byzantine Empire. On the religious side, we are studying everything that lead to the Great Schism, including the schism of Photius (we are here now). But we focus more on the emperors. I've learned the name of all the emperor from Justinian to Michel III, with the date, and I feel like my brain can't learn something by heart now. We did not really began with Justinian - there was a part about the foundation of Constantinople, and then Justinian, Heraclius, etc... 

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As Sr. MC said, Megaloschemos means Great Schema. (Does your canonist's education include any Greek, Sponsa? Just curious.) It's the signifying garment of the monastic, and the highest or fullest grade of Orthodox monasticism, though slightly different usages have developed over the centuries and in different places. Originally it was the only monastic garment, given at the one and only tonsure someone would ever receive, and showed that the person was no longer learning the monastic way but was already living that reality, and thus ready to leave his teacher and, usually, go and be a hermit by himself.

It's the yoke of Christ, and signifies total death to everything earthly; crucifixion in fact, and total belonging to Christ in anticipation of the Resurrection. For if we die with him, we believe shall also live with him. And I think there is a tradition in the Latin Church also of the profession and specifically the clothing aspect being linked to putting off the old man, belonging to the former manner of life and its desires, and being renewed putting on the new man, who is Christ? At least in the older orders? This is a strong element of the monastic profession for us. But anyway, the person who receives the Great Schema will have already been a monastic for a long, long time, and reached a certain mastery over his/her passions so that a life of uninterrupted prayer is possible. Along with the physical garment comes an expectation of a way of life that is basically eremitic, very ascetic and strict. For this reason, it's also known as the Angelic Schema - because the person wearing it is living a life like that of the angels, who are constantly praising God. In some strands of the tradition, it is given after several decades in the monastery; in others, only on the deathbed; and I believe the majority of Orthodox monks and nuns do not reach it. (And that's ok!)

I guess I was most curious about the way of life of someone who receives the Great Schema. I'd read several places that it's normal for not everyone to be called to this, but I was wondering about what specific additional obligations a person in this level of monastic life would have, as opposed to a "normal" fully professed nun (and please excuse my clunky terminology!) 

I did study some basic Classical Greek when I was an undergraduate, though for my canon law studies (and actually also in my particular theology program) the emphasis was really on Latin. 

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I guess I was most curious about the way of life of someone who receives the Great Schema. I'd read several places that it's normal for not everyone to be called to this, but I was wondering about what specific additional obligations a person in this level of monastic life would have, as opposed to a "normal" fully professed nun (and please excuse my clunky terminology!) 

I did study some basic Classical Greek when I was an undergraduate, though for my canon law studies (and actually also in my particular theology program) the emphasis was really on Latin. 

The emphasis is really that you have now moved into a life of solitude, stricter asceticism and uninterrupted prayer. What is wonderful to me is that with this greater strictness of life comes also a greater freedom to determine your own way to God. That's why I haven't been able to point to a particular source or rule and say, 'That's what Great Schema monastics do'. It's considered a gift of the Holy Spirit and therefore to some extent outside the normal rules. In some strains of the tradition, there are general expectations (I was reading about this recently in the life of St. Paisios by Elder Isaac, but I don't want to quote things I'm possibly remembering wrongly); but we can say that if the normal life of an Orthodox monastic consists of prayer, fasting and giving the alms of work and/or spiritual care, then the life of a Great Schema monastic consists of these to an even greater degree. In particular, since this period of life is often when a monastic becomes really fruitful, it's not unusual for spiritual care to be a large portion of what they do.

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