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Carmelite Customs


graciandelamadrededios

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  • 4 weeks later...

Praised be Jesus Christ! Really quick, I am looking for where specifically the cross without a corpus on the wall of a cell in Carmel comes from. A friend asked me about it for a research project. Gracian, do you have in any of your books a specific reference to this? I've known forever that this is the custom in Carmel, but cannot find any specific reference to it in either the Constitutions (1926) or Ceremonial from the 20's. Those are the two main books that I have. 

Thanks if you can help :like2:

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38 minutes ago, Chiquitunga said:

Praised be Jesus Christ! Really quick, I am looking for where specifically the cross without a corpus on the wall of a cell in Carmel comes from. A friend asked me about it for a research project. Gracian, do you have in any of your books a specific reference to this? I've known forever that this is the custom in Carmel, but cannot find any specific reference to it in either the Constitutions (1926) or Ceremonial from the 20's. Those are the two main books that I have. 

Thanks if you can help :like2:

While this is not a formal reference, Mother Catherine Thomas, in her memoir "My Beloved," talks about this and says that it symbolizes that the Carmelite is to take the place of Christ on the Cross. I could find the exact quote if anyone wants it, as I have the book--but not by my side as I write.

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Thanks nunsuch! I remember it being there and talked about in many other Carmelite works, but I was wondering, is there a place like their Constitutions or customary, something like that that gracian seems to have lots of knowledge of, that regulates this for all Carmels? In the Constitutions there are rules about a lot of specific things like this, and simplicity of the cell it talks about as well, but it doesn't actually mention the Cross.. so yeah, wondering.

I wonder also if/when Holy Mother St Teresa started this for her reform, or if it was used by other Orders as well, or the Incarnation. Or rather, it's my friend wondering this, but now me too!

that's a good reminder though, to take a look in My Beloved to see if it references anything, or has a little about its origins. A Few Lines to Tell You too

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On 2/10/2017 at 6:45 PM, Chiquitunga said:

Praised be Jesus Christ! Really quick, I am looking for where specifically the cross without a corpus on the wall of a cell in Carmel comes from. A friend asked me about it for a research project. Gracian, do you have in any of your books a specific reference to this? I've known forever that this is the custom in Carmel, but cannot find any specific reference to it in either the Constitutions (1926) or Ceremonial from the 20's. Those are the two main books that I have. 

Thanks if you can help :like2:

Hi Chiqui!

I need to check my copy of custom book which originated from a French Carmel.  

Please refer to:

"It doesn't take much work to empty the cell of a Carmelite.  There are so few things in it!  The furnishings include a wooden board on which a straw mattress rests and a large wooden cross without the figure of Christ, "a dry" cross, as Saint John of the Cross would say.  The cross reminds the Carmeltie that she must crucify herself in imitation of her Divine Spouse." Page 405

 

"In the Prioress' cell there is no cross, but only a small table.  This custom may derive from the fact that the Mother Prioress has enough crosses with her office." Page 406

 

From the book: Following the Path of Divine Love: Saint Maravillas, O.C.D., Daughter of the Church and of Saint Teresa of Jesus by the Discalced Carmelites of Cerro de los Angeles and La Aldehuela, Spain.  Translated to English by the Carmelite Nuns of Bufallo, New York, 2011.

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15 hours ago, graciandelamadrededios said:

 

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"The plain wooden cross, Sister Marie told me, had no corpus because in spirit I was to take Our Lord's place there; as a Carmelite I was to perpetuate on earth the suffering life of Our Lord.  "With Christ I am nailed to the Cross."

 

from My Beloved:The Story of a Carmelite Nun by Mother Catherine Thomas of the Divine Providence, D.C

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On 2/11/2017 at 0:46 AM, Chiquitunga said:

Thanks nunsuch! I remember it being there and talked about in many other Carmelite works, but I was wondering, is there a place like their Constitutions or customary, something like that that gracian seems to have lots of knowledge of, that regulates this for all Carmels? In the Constitutions there are rules about a lot of specific things like this, and simplicity of the cell it talks about as well, but it doesn't actually mention the Cross.. so yeah, wondering.

I wonder also if/when Holy Mother St Teresa started this for her reform, or if it was used by other Orders as well, or the Incarnation. Or rather, it's my friend wondering this, but now me too!

that's a good reminder though, to take a look in My Beloved to see if it references anything, or has a little about its origins. A Few Lines to Tell You too

Hello Chiqui!

I once asked a Poor Clare Colettine Abbess if they have a cross without corpus on their cell and she told me theirs has corpus and that "cross without a corpus" is a Carmelite tradition.

I am not sure if St. Teresa started this custom on her own or she copies if from the customs of the O. Carm.  

 

 

 

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