dymphnamaria Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 [font='book antiqua']Hello everyone![/font][font='book antiqua']I am so sorry that I was unable to reply immediately. I have been extremely busy for the past few weeks.[/font] Oh Gracian, it's good to see you back, I have been missing your documentary post. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graciandelamadrededios Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 Oh Gracian, it's good to see you back, I have been missing your documentary post. :) Than you, dear Dymphnamaria! :saint2: I’m glad you liked what I posted. More to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inperpetuity Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Thank you for posting everything, Gracian. I think this is all very interesting and helpful for those who are discerning a call to Carmel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AveMariaPurissima Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Carmel is so beautiful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiquitunga Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Carmel is so beautiful! "The land that was desolate and impassable shall be glad, and the wilderness shall rejoice, and shall flourish like the lily. It shall bud forth and blossom, and shall rejoice with joy and praise. The glory of Lebanon is given to it, the beauty of Carmel and Sharon. They shall see the glory of the Lord, and the beauty of our God." (Is 35:1-2) couldn't help myself, even the Bible says so :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graciandelamadrededios Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share Posted June 22, 2013 The following is the Decree approving the 1991 Rule and Constitutions of the Discalced Nuns of the Order of the Most Blessed Mary of Mount Carmel. Issued in Rome, 17 September 1991, on the Feast of Saint Albert of Jerusalem. Congregation for the Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life Decree “The Apostolic See, aware of the importance of the vocation of the Discalced Nuns of the Order of the Blessed Virgin Mary of Mount Carmel, has the duty to see to it that the spiritual riches of the teaching and the norms handed down by Holy Mother St. Teresa of Jesus be safeguarded, in conformity with the changed conditions of the times and the stipulations of current canonical legislation. For this reason, His Holiness John Paul II entrusted to this congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life the task of overseeing the revision of the text of the Constitutions of the Discalced Carmelite Nuns, observing faithfully the principles of the Second Vatican Council and the Norms of the Code of Canon Law. At the conclusion of the revision work the text of the Rule and Constitutions was presented to the Holy Father on 3 August 1991. The Holy Father himself, after close examination of this same text and in virtue of decree no. 91.536 of the Secretariate of State (dated 14 September 1991) has provided for its approval and publication. He has asked for a suitable period of time during which the monasteries should declare which of the two texts in vigor (that of 2 December 1990 or that of 17 September 1991) they intend to choose…†Issued in Rome, 17 September 1991, on the Feast of Saint Albert of Jerusalem. Signed: Jerome Card. Hamer, Prefect +Francisco-Javier Errazuriz, Secretary The following document signed by Pope John Paul II is included in the publication of the 1991 Constitutions of the Discalced Carmelite Nuns which our monastery follows. Excerpt: “To the Discalced Carmelite Nuns Upon the Approval of Their Fundamental Legislation. Beloved daughters of Saint Teresa of Jesus: … Now I address with affection, all the Discalced Carmelite Nuns on the occasion of the approval of a new text of Constitutions. Conscious of the great importance of your specific vocation, both for the family of Carmel and for the whole Church, the Holy See has submitted your legislation to a special discernment, in order to safeguard the spiritual heritage of Saint Teresa. Thus is brought to conclusion a long process by the Holy See. As is known, the Holy See, in replying to a petition of a group of monasteries, approved on 8 December 1990, a text of the Constitutions for the Discalced Carmelite Nuns. These were prepared according to the guidelines indicated in the Letter written in my name by the Cardinal Secretary of State, Agostino Casaroli, on 15 October 1984. These gave liberty to other monasteries of the Order who wanted to adopt them as a way of life. Taking into account the desires of the remaining monasteries, the same Holy See, has approved as well, another text of Constitutions for the Discalced Carmelite Nuns. The Congregation for the Institute of Consecrated Life and the Societies of Apostolic Life has prepared this text, taking into account the opinions of the monasteries, united under the Superior General of the Order. Both texts, equally approved by the Church, seek to be faithful interpretations of the Teresian charism. This remains unaltered, as well as the style of life proposed by the Holy Mother (St. Teresa) in her Constitutions and other writings. The differences do not refer therefore, either to the substance of the Teresian Carmelite contemplative charism, or to the necessary and constant return to the primitive inspiration. They correspond rather to the diverse modalities of interpreting adaptation to the changed conditions of the times, (cf. Perfectae caritatis no.2), and formulation of legislation for religious institutes, the approbation of which is the exclusive competence of the Holy See. We are dealing with different appreciations that are born from the same wish to be faithful to the Lord, which the Holy See has sought to respect. In the same way it respects the liberty of each monastery to opt for one or the other of the approved constitutional texts. In this particular moment of your history and legislation, permit me to manifest to you a desire that lies in the heart of the Father and Pastor of the universal Church. I desire that the approbation of the two texts of the Constitutions, by which I have tried to respond to the express desires of the different monasteries, keep alive the spiritual unity of all the Teresian Carmel, in the midst of its legitimate historical traditions, and the new circumstances, places and cultures, in which it embodies its charism. All of the Discalced Carmelite Nuns joined with the Discalced Carmelite Friars, form in the Church the one and same Order of the Discalced Brothers and Sisters of the Blessed Virgin Mary of Mount Carmel. All hold common the same Rule, the same Teresian Carmelite charism, and the same spiritual patrimony, transmitted by the Holy Parents Teresa of Jesus and John of the Cross… Moreover, you all participate, each following their own and legitimate forms of life approved by the Church, in the same spirituality and mission of the Teresian Carmel, which today enjoys such appreciation in the Church… Today the Church celebrates the feast of Saint Therese of the Child Jesus. I ask her intercession, while entrusting to the Virgin Mary, Mother of Carmel, the spiritual unity of the Order, and your fidelity to your vocation. With all my heart I impart to all the Discalced Carmelite Nuns a special Apostolic Blessing.†The Vatican, 1 October 1991, the feast of Saint Therese of the Child Jesus, the thirteenth year of my pontificate. Signed: Pope John Paul II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graciandelamadrededios Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 The following is the Decree approving the 1991 Rule and Constitutions of the Discalced Nuns of the Order of the Most Blessed Mary of Mount Carmel. Issued in Rome, 17 September 1991, on the Feast of Saint Albert of Jerusalem. Congregation for the Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life Decree “The Apostolic See, aware of the importance of the vocation of the Discalced Nuns of the Order of the Blessed Virgin Mary of Mount Carmel, has the duty to see to it that the spiritual riches of the teaching and the norms handed down by Holy Mother St. Teresa of Jesus be safeguarded, in conformity with the changed conditions of the times and the stipulations of current canonical legislation. For this reason, His Holiness John Paul II entrusted to this congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life the task of overseeing the revision of the text of the Constitutions of the Discalced Carmelite Nuns, observing faithfully the principles of the Second Vatican Council and the Norms of the Code of Canon Law. At the conclusion of the revision work the text of the Rule and Constitutions was presented to the Holy Father on 3 August 1991. The Holy Father himself, after close examination of this same text and in virtue of decree no. 91.536 of the Secretariate of State (dated 14 September 1991) has provided for its approval and publication. He has asked for a suitable period of time during which the monasteries should declare which of the two texts in vigor (that of 2 December 1990 or that of 17 September 1991) they intend to choose…†Issued in Rome, 17 September 1991, on the Feast of Saint Albert of Jerusalem. Signed: Jerome Card. Hamer, Prefect +Francisco-Javier Errazuriz, Secretary The following document signed by Pope John Paul II is included in the publication of the 1991 Constitutions of the Discalced Carmelite Nuns which our monastery follows. Excerpt: “To the Discalced Carmelite Nuns Upon the Approval of Their Fundamental Legislation. Beloved daughters of Saint Teresa of Jesus: … Now I address with affection, all the Discalced Carmelite Nuns on the occasion of the approval of a new text of Constitutions. Conscious of the great importance of your specific vocation, both for the family of Carmel and for the whole Church, the Holy See has submitted your legislation to a special discernment, in order to safeguard the spiritual heritage of Saint Teresa. Thus is brought to conclusion a long process by the Holy See. As is known, the Holy See, in replying to a petition of a group of monasteries, approved on 8 December 1990, a text of the Constitutions for the Discalced Carmelite Nuns. These were prepared according to the guidelines indicated in the Letter written in my name by the Cardinal Secretary of State, Agostino Casaroli, on 15 October 1984. These gave liberty to other monasteries of the Order who wanted to adopt them as a way of life. Taking into account the desires of the remaining monasteries, the same Holy See, has approved as well, another text of Constitutions for the Discalced Carmelite Nuns. The Congregation for the Institute of Consecrated Life and the Societies of Apostolic Life has prepared this text, taking into account the opinions of the monasteries, united under the Superior General of the Order. Both texts, equally approved by the Church, seek to be faithful interpretations of the Teresian charism. This remains unaltered, as well as the style of life proposed by the Holy Mother (St. Teresa) in her Constitutions and other writings. The differences do not refer therefore, either to the substance of the Teresian Carmelite contemplative charism, or to the necessary and constant return to the primitive inspiration. They correspond rather to the diverse modalities of interpreting adaptation to the changed conditions of the times, (cf. Perfectae caritatis no.2), and formulation of legislation for religious institutes, the approbation of which is the exclusive competence of the Holy See. We are dealing with different appreciations that are born from the same wish to be faithful to the Lord, which the Holy See has sought to respect. In the same way it respects the liberty of each monastery to opt for one or the other of the approved constitutional texts. In this particular moment of your history and legislation, permit me to manifest to you a desire that lies in the heart of the Father and Pastor of the universal Church. I desire that the approbation of the two texts of the Constitutions, by which I have tried to respond to the express desires of the different monasteries, keep alive the spiritual unity of all the Teresian Carmel, in the midst of its legitimate historical traditions, and the new circumstances, places and cultures, in which it embodies its charism. All of the Discalced Carmelite Nuns joined with the Discalced Carmelite Friars, form in the Church the one and same Order of the Discalced Brothers and Sisters of the Blessed Virgin Mary of Mount Carmel. All hold common the same Rule, the same Teresian Carmelite charism, and the same spiritual patrimony, transmitted by the Holy Parents Teresa of Jesus and John of the Cross… Moreover, you all participate, each following their own and legitimate forms of life approved by the Church, in the same spirituality and mission of the Teresian Carmel, which today enjoys such appreciation in the Church… Today the Church celebrates the feast of Saint Therese of the Child Jesus. I ask her intercession, while entrusting to the Virgin Mary, Mother of Carmel, the spiritual unity of the Order, and your fidelity to your vocation. With all my heart I impart to all the Discalced Carmelite Nuns a special Apostolic Blessing.†The Vatican, 1 October 1991, the feast of Saint Therese of the Child Jesus, the thirteenth year of my pontificate. Signed: Pope John Paul II Hi Chiqui! This is the letter you have asked for right? Gracian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiquitunga Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Hi Chiqui! This is the letter you have asked for right? Gracian Hi Gracian! Thank you! I think I did once ask if you had this in English because I have only ever seen it in Italian and Spanish. Thank you so much for typing it out in English for us here from the 1991 Constitutions you have. Also, I got your email with this and just haven't had the chance to reply yet. Thanks again! It's always great to read the words from Blessed JPII and to be able to cite this reference that all the Discalced Carmelite Nuns are still united in the one Discalced Carmelite Order :like: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graciandelamadrededios Posted June 26, 2013 Author Share Posted June 26, 2013 Hi Gracian! Thank you! I think I did once ask if you had this in English because I have only ever seen it in Italian and Spanish. Thank you so much for typing it out in English for us here from the 1991 Constitutions you have. Also, I got your email with this and just haven't had the chance to reply yet. Thanks again! It's always great to read the words from Blessed JPII and to be able to cite this reference that all the Discalced Carmelite Nuns are still united in the one Discalced Carmelite Order :like: Hi Chiqui! You're welcome! But I did not type it at all! I found them at the website of the Discalced Carmelite Nuns! The Nuns type it up and posted it in their own website. Here is the link: http://test.carmelitesistersbythesea.org/wp/?page_id=75 Gracian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AveMariaPurissima Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 I have a question, for those who have personal knowledge of these things. How does Carmelite life today compare with what is described in GraciandelamordeDios's posts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graciandelamadrededios Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 I have a question, for those who have personal knowledge of these things. How does Carmelite life today compare with what is described in GraciandelamordeDios's posts? What is your take on this Chiqui? Based on my research, the Discalced Carmelite Nuns before Vatican II has a lot of similarities before Vatican II since they have the same Rule and Constitutions, Ceremonial, Customs, Manual, Directories etc. They may have variations but its very slight due to the fact that each Carmel is autonomous. However, after Vatican II, the life of the Discalced Carmelite Nuns differs significantly. There are now two approved text; the 1990 and 1991 Constitutions for the Nuns. Each Carmel can formulate their own custom books and ceremonial though others group themselves as associations and produced their own documents. The best way to discover their differences nowadays is to visit your desired Carmel and make and inquire with the Prioress and the community. There is no longer "one size, fits all" category for Carmels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiquitunga Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 What is your take on this Chiqui? Based on my research, the Discalced Carmelite Nuns before Vatican II has a lot of similarities before Vatican II since they have the same Rule and Constitutions, Ceremonial, Customs, Manual, Directories etc. They may have variations but its very slight due to the fact that each Carmel is autonomous. However, after Vatican II, the life of the Discalced Carmelite Nuns differs significantly. There are now two approved text; the 1990 and 1991 Constitutions for the Nuns. Each Carmel can formulate their own custom books and ceremonial though others group themselves as associations and produced their own documents. The best way to discover their differences nowadays is to visit your desired Carmel and make and inquire with the Prioress and the community. There is no longer "one size, fits all" category for Carmels. My take would be similar :like: Each Carmel is unique. But in general the Carmels under the 1990 Constitutions (which are the older 1581 Constitutions with adaptations to the current times and the documents of VII) would be closer to what was described as a Carmelite day in this book on the life of St. Teresa Margaret, than the Carmels under the newer 1991 Constitutions, which is a newly written text rather than the 1581s adapted as the 1990s are. However, the basics of Discalced Carmelite life (eg, the two hours of Mental Prayer, full Divine Office, Papal Enclosure, Carmelite Rule of St. Albert, Carmelite prayers and devotions/saints, etc.) are observed by Carmels under both Constitutions and they are still united as the same Discalced Carmelite Order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graciandelamadrededios Posted July 13, 2013 Author Share Posted July 13, 2013 Speaking of the 1990 Constitutions; does anyone here read them? Gracian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiquitunga Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Speaking of the 1990 Constitutions; does anyone here read them? Gracian Well, they're not available to buy, so that would make it harder for people to read them :hehe: but I was lucky, or blessed rather, to find a used copy on amazon, which I haven't seen since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graciandelamadrededios Posted July 13, 2013 Author Share Posted July 13, 2013 Well, they're not available to buy, so that would make it harder for people to read them :hehe: but I was lucky, or blessed rather, to find a used copy on amazon, which I haven't seen since. You are indeed lucky! Mine was given to me by a 1990 Carmel, so I am lucky too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now