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some people have deeply held convictions against eating meat for moral or other reasons. but many orders will make you eat meat out of obedience, or else you risk being malnourished since no other proper protein is provided. for many discerners, this is a private area of personal moral conflict.

 

So I thought it would be helpful to list orders/groups  which are definately not for vegetarians, and also the few which are vegetarian (some observe it as an ascetical practice). Please add as you wish

 

ANTI- VEGETARIAN

- FSSP
- ICKSP

- Monastic Family of Bethlehem

 

 

VEGETARIAN

- Trappists

- Carthusians

- Sisters of Jesus

- Cistercians

- some Carmelites

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We never ate meat until about the 80's when fish became very expensive and people would be offering us meat, especially turkeys. We felt it was more in keeping with poverty to accept the meat and eat

Hi Oremus,   Perhaps a more constructive way to have phrased the question "how would you know? y ou are married and therefore not in religous life." might have bee nsomething along the lines of:  

Ok ... I am locking this thread for the precise reason stated above.  You can discuss an issue, and disagree with people, but there are statements on this thread that are just not good (I don't want t

I used to be a vegan and then a vegetarian for about 2 years until my body couldn't stand it anymore.  People in my family have problems with anemia - both pernicious (B-12) and iron-deficient.  I was so run down and tired all the time.  I started eating meat again and felt much better.  To be honest, I think humans were meant to be omnivores not herbivores. 

 

But, anyway, I know the Buffalo Carmelites are strictly vegetarian.  In fact, most strict Carmelite communities go without.  Poor Clare Collettines (most of them, if not all) go without meat, as well.

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And even some "veggie" communities allow meat for the sick & enfeebled. I would call this the common sense approach. :)

 

Yes, one community I was in contact with for a while allowed their elderly and infirm to eat meat even though the rest of the Sisters did not.  Doctor's orders and health rule above poverty when necessary.

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the Holy Rule of St. Benedict forbids the "flesh of four-hoofed animals" So does that allow for chicken and fish  :think: Most likely not chicken though; but the Saint is known for the virtue we all need.. discretion.

 

Pax

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Most communities who observe continual abstinence have a get out clause in the Rule for those who need to eat meat for illness or other reason.

I would not  describe a community who ate meat as 'anti-vegetarian'. 

 

 

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Most communities who observe continual abstinence have a get out clause in the Rule for those who need to eat meat for illness or other reason.

I would not  describe a community who ate meat as 'anti-vegetarian'. 

oh yes, i mean ordinarily - not for special sick/infirm/other health reasons. some orders have perpetual abstinence.

 

and by anti vegetarian, I mean they specifically require you to eat meat as part of the community under obedience:

"I am a vegetarian. Does this present a problem for my application?

 

We generally have over ninety people (priests, seminarians, staff) for whom our kitchen must prepare meals. Unless it is due to a diagnosed medical condition, we are unable to accommodate special dietary preferences. Therefore, we expect all seminarians to eat all of the meals prepared for them, even those that do contain meat. This is one of the many rules seminarians need to abide by when living and studying in community"
 

http://www.fsspolgs.org/faq.html

 

is it really so onerous to give a seminarian a couple glasses of milk, while giving his meat to his fellow brethren?

Edited by oremus1
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Okay, fair enough. However.......

 

If someone enters a situation where they know in advance that a particular moral/ethical issue (for them)  is likely to be over-ruled by obedience, AND THEY OBJECT TO THAT,  why are they there?

 

In RL and the seminary, one submits ones will, and one's judgement in holy obedience. That is what Obedience means. I give up my will and accept the will and judgement of the local superiors as being the representation of God's Will for me.

I think this is a hard notion for someone outside of RL (or it's relatives) to grasp.

 

This is also why there is a period of discernment, visits in advance etc before one commits one's self. In that time if you haven't figured out the 'requirements' of the community particularly if some aspect is a moral or ethical aspect for you, then you only have yourself to blame. 

I think if I had such a strong objection to eating meat that I wasn't prepared to just push it to one side then I would not have placed myself in a position like that in the first place.

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Okay, fair enough. However.......

 

If someone enters a situation where they know in advance that a particular moral/ethical issue (for them)  is likely to be over-ruled by obedience, AND THEY OBJECT TO THAT,  why are they there?

 

In RL and the seminary, one submits ones will, and one's judgement in holy obedience. That is what Obedience means. I give up my will and accept the will and judgement of the local superiors as being the representation of God's Will for me.

I think this is a hard notion for someone outside of RL (or it's relatives) to grasp.

 

This is also why there is a period of discernment, visits in advance etc before one commits one's self. In that time if you haven't figured out the 'requirements' of the community particularly if some aspect is a moral or ethical aspect for you, then you only have yourself to blame. 

I think if I had such a strong objection to eating meat that I wasn't prepared to just push it to one side then I would not have placed myself in a position like that in the first place.

 

 

that is why there is this thread for discrners who have such a view, so they can see in advance which orders will have an issue with that, and would not!

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that is why there is this thread for discrners who have such a view, so they can see in advance which orders will have an issue with that, and would not!

 

 

 

I see your point, but my personal view is that it is much better to develop a relationship with the community where such things can be discussed.

 

We could have massive long lists otherwise:

 

X community eats meat.

Y community wear sandals.

O community cut their hair.

B community is a 'wedding dress' order.......

 

It would be an endless list!

 

However, having said that, there are some really good threads on VS about such things as  'questions to ask your future community' and a very interesting one containing the 'list' one gets of items to be brought with you at entry. I am not enough of a techie to post a link, but some of those might interest you and someone else may be able to give you the link.

 

there is also this:

http://carmelitesnewross.com/ask-the-novice-mistress/

 

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I see your point, but my personal view is that it is much better to develop a relationship with the community where such things can be discussed.

 

We could have massive long lists otherwise:

 

X community eats meat.

Y community wear sandals.

O community cut their hair.

B community is a 'wedding dress' order.......

 

It would be an endless list!

 

However, having said that, there are some really good threads on VS about such things as  'questions to ask your future community' and a very interesting one containing the 'list' one gets of items to be brought with you at entry. I am not enough of a techie to post a link, but some of those might interest you and someone else may be able to give you the link.

 

there is also this:

http://carmelitesnewross.com/ask-the-novice-mistress/


There were many 'wedding dress order' threads. This is a vegetarian order thread. Some communities have it as part of their rule.

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I can understand the question because I was a vegetarian for over 20 years (starting when I was a Buddhist in my early 20s). And I have never been particularly fond of meat anyway so after I converted, I thought I would find it hard to enter a convent where I would have to eat meat. When I did start discerning RL seriously though, I was attracted to the Carmelites (Discalced), who don't eat meat. The first two Carmels I was in adhered to this part of the Rule, but the third Carmel I entered ate meat because it was donated by their neighbors (ranchers) and the community felt it was more in keeping with the vow of poverty to accept and eat it, than to stick to the letter of the law in the Rule. Especially since the Rule has several exceptions to eating meat -- one of them was not to inconvenience a host and another was while at sea! They felt it was 'common sense' to accept what was offered, so in that Carmel I had to eat meat, which I did. My fourth Carmel was back to no meat again. After awhile, I stopped worrying about it. In my own life I didn't buy or cook meat for myself, but when I went to dinner at someone else's house, I would eat whatever they had prepared, and this usually included meat. Now I eat what is put in front of me and don't seem to have any problems with it.

 

If it is very important to you to be a vegetarian though, I suggest this topic is raised before entering. Some communities are strict about eating what is put in front of you - others offer choice. It isn't irrelevant to find out this information if it matters to you.

 

As for the 'list' approach that maximillion mentioned - this can be a trap - unless you prioritize. Maybe you have a list, but you need to work that list so that you know what things you could live without (or with) and what things are deal breakers for you (the enneagrams you mentioned in another thread would be a good guess, right?) No one is ever going to get everything they want in a community - or any relationship for that matter, but we do all have our little prejudices that affect our choices, and there's no point in pretending they aren't there. Some of them will change over time, some things become more important to you, and others less so. But, as you pointed out in the other thread, don't forget that communities do change over time, just as people do, so don't make your standards impossible not only to fulfill but to maintain as well. Even those that still stick pretty close to a pre Vat 2 lifestyle have changes when the superior changes and the dynamics of the community get shuffled around a bit. 

 

All I can say to you right now is --- take your time. There's no rush.

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graciandelamadrededios

some people have deeply held convictions against eating meat for moral or other reasons. but many orders will make you eat meat out of obedience, or else you risk being malnourished since no other proper protein is provided. for many discerners, this is a private area of personal moral conflict.

 

So I thought it would be helpful to list orders/groups  which are definately not for vegetarians, and also the few which are vegetarian (some observe it as an ascetical practice). Please add as you wish

 

ANTI- VEGETARIAN

- FSSP
- ICKSP

- Monastic Family of Bethlehem

 

 

VEGETARIAN

- Trappists

- Carthusians

- Sisters of Jesus

- Cistercians

- some Carmelites

 

May I ask what do you mean by Vegetarian?  What type of Vegetarian are you referring to?  

 

Discalced Carmelite Nuns, at least those I am acquainted with don't eat meat but they eat fish, milk, and eggs as protein substitute.  Trappist does the same thing as well as Poor Clares.  I heard one Trappist Monk said "We do not eat meat but we are not vegetarian."  In her book "A Right to be Merry" by Mother Mary Francis, PCC, she wrote:

 

"Sister Paula remarked ... how it was 'so nice' that the tornado did not kill us after all, as Sister Catherine's mother had just given us some shrimp and it would be a dreadful shame for a rare treat like that to be blown into Texas where people probably had shrimp any old day." 

 

When I visited the Convent of the Pink Sisters in Baguio, I asked the Superior if the Sisters eat meat, she said Yes, especially that they have few sisters in this community than normal, each Sister has to be feed well to sustain their health since they maintain Adoration 24/7.  

 

Also, I heard that a certain Carmelite Monastery was allowed to eat meat since fish is more expensive than meat in their area.  The Carmelite Rule states: "Necessity has no law"

 

Primitive Rule of the Order of the Blessed Virgin Mary of Mount Carmel given by St. Albert, Patriarch of Jerusalem and corrected, emended and confirmed by Pope Innocent IV (Carmelite Rule)

 

16. You are to fast every day, except Sunday, from the feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross until Easter Day, unless bodily sickness or feebleness, or some other good reason, demand a dispensation from the fast; for necessity overrides every law.

 

17. You are to abstain from meat, except as a remedy for sickness or feebleness. But as, when you are on a journey, you more often than not have to beg your way, outside your own houses, you may eat foodstuffs that have been cooked with meat, so as to avoid giving trouble to your hosts. At sea, however, meat may be eaten.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by graciandelamadrededios
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