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The true face of saints


ruso

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Saint Anthony of Padua, is represented with Jesus of child. Now we know his face, no different from the average Portuguese.

san_antonio_high_quality.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_of_Padua

Saint Martín de Porres of the Dominican Order, the saint more venerated in America, he was the son of a Spanish noble and a free black woman.

SMP.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_de_Porres

Saint Rose of Lima, the first person born in America canonized. His parents were Spaniards

santa%20rosa%20de%20lima.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_of_Lima

 

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It's easier to think they are superhuman rather than ordinary. If they are like us, then what excuse do we have not to be like them?

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It's easier to think they are superhuman rather than ordinary. If they are like us, then what excuse do we have not to be like them?

They were normal people. In these three saints, what they have in common is that they left high positions in life to be religious. Even St. Martin, his father recognized him as his son and St Martin was named Gentilhombre despite being mulato, equivalent to title Sir in the British. 

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They look a bit like something out of a video game. The first one reminds me of the guards in The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion. :huh:

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I recently read a biography of St. Juan of the Cross, and its main point was that he was not the dark ascetic he's often imagined as, he was very human. Actually, it's funny because St. Francis of Assisi is usually imagined as the gentle saint, but there was something severe about Francis...he put a big emphasis on the Cross and penance. But Juan was very gentle, not just in his writing but in his life, he loved the sick especially, and although he had a reputation as a severe man, it was only a reputation...once people got to know him, they saw his great humanity, which made him such a good spiritual guide. His brother was a poor man, not someone a leader of a religious order would necessarily want to be too associated with in class-conscious Spain, but Juan would call him in front of others "my greatest treasure on earth." There's another story about a woman who came to see Juan and wanted him to be her lover, and apparently Juan admitted many years later that he found her attractive in every way, he didn't chase her out or yell at her, he just talked to her gently and eventually she left realizing that the relationship she wanted was impossible. But he wasn't a dark personality at all.

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KnightofChrist

I find these pictures creepy.

They look a bit like something out of a video game. The first one reminds me of the guards in The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion. :huh:

I like when they do the same thing but with clay, much better imho, well depending on the artist. For example the one created for Otzi the Iceman by Kennis and Kennis Reconstruction is very well done. The tech for 3D modeling is soooo much better than it use to be, but it's still not reached the point where it looks "real," it gets close but has that eerie, strange, creepy or alien factor. Which in itself is interesting, because people feel the same way about robotic models that emulate human faces. What exactly makes us feel odd about artificial tech appearing to be human? Is it just because it gets close but not close enough and appears alien? Or is it something deeper and we are able to sense the coming Cylon rebellion like animals can sense an oncoming storm lol?

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I like when they do the same thing but with clay, much better imho, well depending on the artist. For example the one created for Otzi the Iceman by Kennis and Kennis Reconstruction is very well done. The tech for 3D modeling is soooo much better than it use to be, but it's still not reached the point where it looks "real," it gets close but has that eerie, strange, creepy or alien factor. Which in itself is interesting, because people feel the same way about robotic models that emulate human faces. What exactly makes us feel odd about artificial tech appearing to be human? Is it just because it gets close but not close enough and appears alien? Or is it something deeper and we are able to sense the coming Cylon rebellion like animals can sense an oncoming storm lol?

I watched a special on the discovery of Richard III's bones a while back, they reconstructed his face, and it actually looked very like the paintings we have. But it was a 3D model and looked pretty cool once they put a wig and clothes on it:

05_17_2013_richard-III-face.jpg

richardiii.jpg

Edited by Era Might
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I like when they do the same thing but with clay, much better imho, well depending on the artist. For example the one created for Otzi the Iceman by Kennis and Kennis Reconstruction is very well done. The tech for 3D modeling is soooo much better than it use to be, but it's still not reached the point where it looks "real," it gets close but has that eerie, strange, creepy or alien factor. Which in itself is interesting, because people feel the same way about robotic models that emulate human faces. What exactly makes us feel odd about artificial tech appearing to be human? Is it just because it gets close but not close enough and appears alien? Or is it something deeper and we are able to sense the coming Cylon rebellion like animals can sense an oncoming storm lol?

"What exactly makes us feel odd about artificial tech appearing to be human? Is it just because it gets close but not close enough and appears alien?" 

Yep, I think this might be it, though your other hypothesis is valid also. :smile2:

The Otzi reconstruction looks so realistic that I find myself attributing thoughts and feelings to it, but it's like a mask and what's behind that mask is not alive. Those eyes looking in my direction don't actually see. To me, that's what makes such reconstructions alien, eerie and strange.  

I visited Madame Tussaud's in NY last year and felt a similar experience. Though not as good as Otzi, they were still realistic enough.  

It's fascinating for sure. 

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I like when they do the same thing but with clay, much better imho, well depending on the artist. For example the one created for Otzi the Iceman by Kennis and Kennis Reconstruction is very well done. The tech for 3D modeling is soooo much better than it use to be, but it's still not reached the point where it looks "real," it gets close but has that eerie, strange, creepy or alien factor. Which in itself is interesting, because people feel the same way about robotic models that emulate human faces. What exactly makes us feel odd about artificial tech appearing to be human? Is it just because it gets close but not close enough and appears alien? Or is it something deeper and we are able to sense the coming Cylon rebellion like animals can sense an oncoming storm lol?

"What exactly makes us feel odd about artificial tech appearing to be human? Is it just because it gets close but not close enough and appears alien?" 

Yep, I think this might be it, though your other hypothesis is valid also. :smile2:

The Otzi reconstruction looks so realistic that I find myself attributing thoughts and feelings to it, but it's like a mask and what's behind that mask is not alive. Those eyes looking in my direction don't actually see. To me, that's what makes such reconstructions alien, eerie and strange.  

I visited Madame Tussaud's in NY last year and felt a similar experience. Though not as good as Otzi, they were still realistic enough.  

It's fascinating for sure. 

Both of you should google "the uncanny valley". That's what this phenomenon is called.

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Sponsa-Christi

I recently read a biography of St. Juan of the Cross, and its main point was that he was not the dark ascetic he's often imagined as, he was very human. Actually, it's funny because St. Francis of Assisi is usually imagined as the gentle saint, but there was something severe about Francis...he put a big emphasis on the Cross and penance. But Juan was very gentle, not just in his writing but in his life, he loved the sick especially, and although he had a reputation as a severe man, it was only a reputation...once people got to know him, they saw his great humanity, which made him such a good spiritual guide. His brother was a poor man, not someone a leader of a religious order would necessarily want to be too associated with in class-conscious Spain, but Juan would call him in front of others "my greatest treasure on earth." There's another story about a woman who came to see Juan and wanted him to be her lover, and apparently Juan admitted many years later that he found her attractive in every way, he didn't chase her out or yell at her, he just talked to her gently and eventually she left realizing that the relationship she wanted was impossible. But he wasn't a dark personality at all.

Do you have a title and/or author for this biography? It sounds fascinating.  

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Both of you should google "the uncanny valley". That's what this phenomenon is called.

Cool, I didn't know the name for it. Thank you. 

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Do you have a title and/or author for this biography? It sounds fascinating.  

"Search for Nothing: The Life of John on the Cross" by Richard P. Hardy. It was published in 1987 so a little dated but still good. The main theme is how Juan's search for nothing, far from a renunciation of the world, allowed him to love it truly, not in an abstract way but in a very human way.

 

Edited by Era Might
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Not The Philosopher

The psychology of the uncanny valley, iirc, happens something like this: in an unrealistic representation of a human, your brain automatically recognizes it as something non-human, and so the unrealistic aspects don't intuitively register as weird (and, on a higher level, they may even serve some aesthetic/symbolic purposes, as is the case with icons). But after a certain level of realism your brain begins recognizing it as an actual human face, and so all the little deviations from how actual humans look begin to feel wrong or creepy, because your lizard brain thinks it's looking at an actual face with those features.

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I recently read a biography of St. Juan of the Cross, and its main point was that he was not the dark ascetic he's often imagined as, he was very human. Actually, it's funny because St. Francis of Assisi is usually imagined as the gentle saint, but there was something severe about Francis...he put a big emphasis on the Cross and penance. But Juan was very gentle, not just in his writing but in his life, he loved the sick especially, and although he had a reputation as a severe man, it was only a reputation...once people got to know him, they saw his great humanity, which made him such a good spiritual guide. His brother was a poor man, not someone a leader of a religious order would necessarily want to be too associated with in class-conscious Spain, but Juan would call him in front of others "my greatest treasure on earth." There's another story about a woman who came to see Juan and wanted him to be her lover, and apparently Juan admitted many years later that he found her attractive in every way, he didn't chase her out or yell at her, he just talked to her gently and eventually she left realizing that the relationship she wanted was impossible. But he wasn't a dark personality at all.

amen. I was on a retreat a few years ago and the only books on the shelf that I hadn't read or looked the least bit interesting were by Juanito.  I was reluctant to read him at first because I'd heard the opinion that he is dark and difficult to understand but, like you, found that's not the case at all.  I learned he is most gentle and loving, and yes blunt when he needs to be.  I'm glad I met him :) 

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