Brooklyn Carmel

[Vlngrl]

The Brooklyn Carmel is collecting funds to build a new monastery. They have received a donation of land (Pleasant Mount Carmel is the new name if the monastery) and are hoping to raise funds for their initial move. 
They have experienced events very close to their enclosure which frighten them… read their own words at this link. They are accepting donations. 
https://pleasantmountcarmel.org

 

[Sponsa-Christi]

Obviously I'm not a part of this community, was not privy to their discernment process, and respect the fact that communities need to do what they discern is right for them.

Still, I think it's a little sad that they're moving out of inner city Brooklyn. It seems like an area like this, where there is so much sin occurring, is exactly the sort of place that most needs a powerhouse of prayer like Carmel. 

[GraceUk]

I thought exactly the same.  A lot of people have to live with less than great neighbours in run down areas. I don't think nuns  should be covering their ears and running away to somewhere peaceful. Its the wrong approach in this case. 

[PaxCordisJesu]

The nuns can still pray for those in Brooklyn whether or not they remain there. And if the prayer life of the nuns is being greatly disturbed, which it seems it is, it is best that they leave. You forget that these are not active sisters but Carmelite nuns who spend a great deal of their time in prayer and silent meditation, which requires silence and recollection.  

[clk]

I read somewhere that there have been intrusions on the grounds and gang activity in the park across the street.

 

[DameAgnes]

I completely understand the sentiments and it would be great if they could stay there, but you have to live in NYC to understand how seriously it has spiraled downward. There is a very real chance that these nuns would be in danger because it's near-anarchy over here and there is none of the sort of deferential respect that people used to have for monasteries or churches. It's really bad. For the nuns, it's people partying, having sex, playing loud music, shooting off guns, right next to them. I hope they can raise the money. And I'm sure they will continue to pray, even from Pennsylvania. As we have seen with the Benedictines of Mary, being out in the country is no guarantee of 'safety' but it would take a community of saints to be able to do the work of prayer amid the chaos. 

 

[Bonkira]

I am curious why they wouldn't ask their donors and benefactors to support them moving to an existing carmelite monastery that has been previously shuttered...there are more than a few. I don't want to be judgey (truly), but it seems like poverty would better be served making use of what already exists instead of continually building anew.

[Nunsuch]

2 hours ago, DameAgnes said:

I completely understand the sentiments and it would be great if they could stay there, but you have to live in NYC to understand how seriously it has spiraled downward. There is a very real chance that these nuns would be in danger because it's near-anarchy over here and there is none of the sort of deferential respect that people used to have for monasteries or churches. It's really bad. For the nuns, it's people partying, having sex, playing loud music, shooting off guns, right next to them. I hope they can raise the money. And I'm sure they will continue to pray, even from Pennsylvania. As we have seen with the Benedictines of Mary, being out in the country is no guarantee of 'safety' but it would take a community of saints to be able to do the work of prayer amid the chaos. 

 

Crime rates are declining in NYC and are actually lower than they were when this monastery was founded. I found several articles documenting this in a 30-second google search. There may be reasons for the community to move (and it's really not the business of anyone here to determine), but that doesn't mean we can't get the facts straight. Of course, the macrocosmic data don't necessarily validate what is happening at a particular site. However, the fact is that NYC has not "spiraled downward" so far as overall and violent crime is concerned--not in the last 20-25 years.

And, yes, I was born in NYC (Brooklyn, actually), and travel there frequently, though I now live upstate. 

[rosamundi]

9 hours ago, Bonkira said:

I am curious why they wouldn't ask their donors and benefactors to support them moving to an existing carmelite monastery that has been previously shuttered...there are more than a few. I don't want to be judgey (truly), but it seems like poverty would better be served making use of what already exists instead of continually building anew.

There could be all sorts of reasons. Off the top of my head

• difficulty and expense of bringing an old monastery up to modern building codes
• expensive repairs needed to the structure
• buildings not energy efficient so would cost more to run
• listed/historic building consents and requirements
• location of an existing monastery may not be suitable (what had been farmland when the monastery was built is now a busy town, for instance).

If a community is starting from scratch a lot of these problems fall away as the building can be built to modern, energy efficient standards with things like solar panels installed from the beginning, cutting down running costs.

IIRC when Stanbrook Abbey in the UK moved to a new site, one of the issues was that the existing property was costing tens of thousands of pounds a year to heat, and it is a difficult and expensive job to replace an oil-fired heating system. In addition, the buildings were suffering from structural damage after years of only being able to focus on the most important repairs; the fact that the property was listed meant that the community were restricted in what they could do to the buildings and everything that was done required extra permissions.

[GraceUk]

The money would be better spent on drug rehabilitation rather than a fancy new building in the middle of nowhere. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by GraceUk
Typing errors

[DameAgnes]

15 hours ago, Nunsuch said:

Crime rates are declining in NYC and are actually lower than they were when this monastery was founded. I found several articles documenting this in a 30-second google search. There may be reasons for the community to move (and it's really not the business of anyone here to determine), but that doesn't mean we can't get the facts straight. Of course, the macrocosmic data don't necessarily validate what is happening at a particular site. However, the fact is that NYC has not "spiraled downward" so far as overall and violent crime is concerned--not in the last 20-25 years.

And, yes, I was born in NYC (Brooklyn, actually), and travel there frequently, though I now live upstate. 

Wow, you visit sometimes but I live here, but you know better than I do, because of a 30 second google search. Good to know. 

[Nunsuch]

4 minutes ago, DameAgnes said:

Wow, you visit sometimes but I live here, but you know better than I do, because of a 30 second google search. Good to know. 

I'm also a trained researcher. What is the basis for your claim, other than anecdotal observation? I found actual studies. Enough. Bless your heart.... And notice what I said about macrocosmic evidence and the ecological fallacy. I'm willing to admit that I don't know everything. Are you?

[DameAgnes]

What a coincidence. I'm a trained researcher too. And I also live here. But yes, enough. Bless YOUR heart.

[cruciatacara]

Meow... cat fight! LOL