Religious Life and COVID-19 Vaccines

[LuciaMaria]

Thanks for the replies everyone! Of course, I agree that it's up to the community to be able to mandate them, especially in communities in which there are a lot of elderly sisters. However, since I'm not interested in getting vaccinated at this time, and some of you seem to know of communities that are not requiring them, I would be interested to know the specific religious orders that are not if anyone is willing to share. (feel free to pm me this!)

I think this whole situation gives me a lot to think about, especially in regards to the vow of obedience. Thanks everyone for discussing different perspectives to consider!

[passerby]

Having read the replies, I think the best thing for you to do is to ask the community/ies you are interested in. They would each have their reasons as to why or why not they may be vaccinated. It would be better to hear their reasons from themselves than from conjecture on the internet. And making vaccination a top criteria for your discernment is doing both you and them a disservice. Just ask them. You likely aren't the first person to ask them!

[Dymphna]

I agree with passerby that vaccination should not be a top criteria for deciding which community is for you. It seems to me that there is actually something deeper going on here, and the subject of vaccination is an opportunity for you to learn something important in starting out in a community - which I'm currently learning myself as well. You're right in sensing that it has to do with obedience, but to me it seems it has at least as much to do with trust: I experience that I need to learn to trust my community enough to tell them what I need, what is possible for me and what not. I need to learn to be open with the responsible sister about things I'd rather keep to myself. Not to find a way around (e.g. getting something I feel I need as a personal gift), but to communicate openly and honestly. And then - to trust the community that they've appointed sisters into responsible positions who will deal in a responsible way with my communicated needs. And ideally, be ready to accept their decision whatever it will be. Or, worst case, take the risk to find out that this community is not for me.

It seems to me that restricting your search at this point already to communities which don't require vaccination may not only be a rather short-lived criterion (depending on how the virus and the vaccines develop positions may change in both directions), but more importantly, it would be avoiding this important learning experience. Which certainly would come up later again, with a different subject, but why not try it out now: If you get to know a community you're interested in, dare to talk to the vocation director about your reservations concerning getting vaccinated, being open about your motivations or fears. You may get a chance to learn to trust.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Dymphna
typo

[Feankie]

I'm going to get on my spiritual direction soapbox again :))

LuciaMarie...First off, welcome!  

Do you have a spiritual director at present?  Have you had any in-depth discussions about your motivation, understanding of, and/or parameters you've placed regarding religious life?  If so, has your reluctance to have the COViD vaccine come up?  If not why not?  Have you discussed and explored what particular charism/s you are drawn to?  Plenty of other questions for you, but you get the idea. You cannot simply base your search for communities on non vaccine vs. pro vaccine congregations.  Please do a "deep dive" with this issue and other facets of RL (including your temperament, understanding and views of the vows), etc. before you get too far down the road in your discernment process.

There are plenty of well-qualified and certified women and men (you don't have to be a priest, brother, or deacon to be a SD....most are not adequately trained in seminary as SD won't be their primary ministry focus). Many Arch/dioceses have a list of trained spiritual directors on their websites.  Or they can steer you in the right direction if you call the Chancery Office.  

Discernment is a two-way street with a very low speed limit!  You can't rush it, nor can you proceed using your own "rules of the road!"  

[fides' Jack]

In this current age, the decision about whether or not to vaccinate should be your own.  Your reasons for that should determine where that falls in the order of importance.  My own particular reasons for not getting the covid serum would place it very, very high if I were to be looking for a way to join the religious life right now.  

I'm just saying the advice of others here that "it should not be high on your list of priorities" ignores whatever reasons you might have for making it high on your list of priorities.  That's between you and God, and that particular advice doesn't belong on this forum.

May God bless you, and good luck in your search!

[LuciaMaria]

52 minutes ago, Feankie said:

I'm going to get on my spiritual direction soapbox again :))

LuciaMarie...First off, welcome!  

Do you have a spiritual director at present?  Have you had any in-depth discussions about your motivation, understanding of, and/or parameters you've placed regarding religious life?  If so, has your reluctance to have the COViD vaccine come up?  If not why not?  Have you discussed and explored what particular charism/s you are drawn to?  Plenty of other questions for you, but you get the idea. You cannot simply base your search for communities on non vaccine vs. pro vaccine congregations.  Please do a "deep dive" with this issue and other facets of RL (including your temperament, understanding and views of the vows), etc. before you get too far down the road in your discernment process.

There are plenty of well-qualified and certified women and men (you don't have to be a priest, brother, or deacon to be a SD....most are not adequately trained in seminary as SD won't be their primary ministry focus). Many Arch/dioceses have a list of trained spiritual directors on their websites.  Or they can steer you in the right direction if you call the Chancery Office.  

Discernment is a two-way street with a very low speed limit!  You can't rush it, nor can you proceed using your own "rules of the road!"  

Hi Feankie!

I do currently have a spiritual director! We've discussed this a little bit, but as I'm realizing the importance of this issue to me, I'm planning on bringing it up during our next meeting so that we can discuss it in depth. I definitely agree that a spiritual director is very important though!

[teresianspirit]

I would agree that this does in fact differ greatly depending on the community. One (cloistered) community which has sisters of all ages, traditional, faithful to the Church, told me up front that none were going to be vaccinated and asked me my views on the concept directly. I would ask the individual community you're discerning with!

[sr.christinaosf]

16 hours ago, Dymphna said:

I agree with passerby that vaccination should not be a top criteria for deciding which community is for you. It seems to me that there is actually something deeper going on here, and the subject of vaccination is an opportunity for you to learn something important in starting out in a community - which I'm currently learning myself as well. You're right in...

There is also freedom of conscience, and one's knowledge of themselves, their health and the way their body reacts.  

[passerby]

20 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

In this current age, the decision about whether or not to vaccinate should be your own.  Your reasons for that should determine where that falls in the order of importance.  My own particular reasons for not getting the covid serum would place it very, very high if I were to be looking for a way to join the religious life right now.  

I'm just saying the advice of others here that "it should not be high on your list of priorities" ignores whatever reasons you might have for making it high on your list of priorities.  That's between you and God, and that particular advice doesn't belong on this forum.

May God bless you, and good luck in your search!

I can only speak for myself, but I'm not ignoring the reasons someone has for not getting the vaccine. As you said, it is a personal one.

Why I suggested speaking to the communities a person may be interested is to have that discussion. It is possible that it is a temporary measure given the time. It may be possible that the entire community was vaccinated but they don't require new members to be, or won't in a year's time (although I realize that is unpredictable, so that's just a hypothetical example). From the "outside," our knowledge of answers to these questions can often be incomplete or missing the nuances that can only come from living religious life. So with this, like many other community-related questions, the most complete answer comes from the community itself, and thus will provide the best material for discernment.

[Dymphna]

20 hours ago, fides' Jack said:

I'm just saying the advice of others here that "it should not be high on your list of priorities" ignores whatever reasons you might have for making it high on your list of priorities.  That's between you and God, and that particular advice doesn't belong on this forum.

There could be a misunderstanding here. Of course it's the right of the TE to make this isssue one which decides whether she can join a community or not. I myself have "red lines" which would send me packing (literally) if they were crossed.

What I mean is the following: The TE asked for info about communities which don't require vaccination, with no other criterion given. This gave me the impression (which may be wrong) that she gives this priority over things like whether the community is active or contemplative, whether it has a specific apostolate or charism, or which spiritual tradition they are rooted in (Benedictine, Carmelite, Franciscan, Dominican, Ignatian...). But these things are the basic stuff of a community and unlikely to change - whereas a position on vaccination can be different in a few months from now. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Dymphna

[LuciaMaria]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

I think part of my concern is that even though this whole covid thing is now starting to calm down a little bit, I would still want to join an order that values freedom of conscience. I think it's possible something similar happens in the future so I would want to join an order that values this.

There are a couple of reasons I haven't given any other criteria on this thread. First of all, I think that a community that does not require vaccination is likely to have other values that align with what I am searching for. Another reason is that I am pretty early in my discernment. I don't know if any of you have been in this place, but I feel like which apostolate I want to do changes pretty frequently. I think this is complicated by the fact that my SD was encouraging me to look into some specific orders that I had not been previously considering. As a result, I feel like I'm considering practically everything at this point. I can expand a little more on what I'm thinking, but at this point I want to keep things pretty open in terms of charism/apostolate. 

Also, silly question- what does TE stand for?

[Dymphna]

1 hour ago, LuciaMaria said:

Also, silly question- what does TE stand for?

oops, my mistake - I abreviated in German!!! Should have been OP - Original Poster. That would be you, in this thread ;-)

[sr.christinaosf]

On 3/9/2022 at 9:07 AM, LuciaMaria said:

I don't know if any of you have been in this place, but I feel like which apostolate I want to do changes pretty frequently. I think this is complicated by the fact that my SD was encouraging me to look into some specific orders that I had not been previously considering. As a result, I feel like I'm considering practically everything at this point. I can expand a little more on what I'm thinking, but at this point I want to keep things pretty open in terms of charism/apostolate. 

Prayers for your journey.

Your comments resonated, in a way, with my experience.  I was looking at religious life through much of my college career.  My major was in communications.  I found that many orders were focused on nursing, or on teaching, etc., etc.  My gifts and interests were not focused on one concrete field.  Therefore, I was interested in a community that had a variety of apostolates.  Of course, this was not the only factor of importance to me.  It was interesting, though, that as I looked into the communications field, my natural attractions (toward doing communications work for a small non-profit) is now being fulfilled in my religious life, working at a home for the elderly and disabled.  Sorry for being long-winded.

[Anastasia13]

Not much help personally, but just wanted to say God bless you on your journey to a community that suits you.

[catholicamama]

I know for a fact that not all communities require vaccination.  Better not to take the advice of those who are merely speculating, and contact the communities directly.  You will be in my prayers!