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Can a learned bibliophile help me out, here?


Ziggamafu

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Maybe I'm wrong but I thought that the procreative purpose of marriage took higher precedence and was more important than the unitive aspect. I have a liberal Catholic friend who says they are on equal ground and have equal footing, especially emphasized by Vatican 2.

If I'm right, I'll need black and white quotes as proof that the Church has formally and officially spoken in this matter. Pre-vatican 2 is fine, but unfortunately he's the type that will largely discredit anything before V2. So if there are any official magisterial documents since V2 that clarify this, it would help....I haven't been able to find any. Only the oppinions of lay-people. ::sigh::

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Noel's angel

Marriage and conjugal love are by their nature ordained toward the begetting and education of children. Children are really the supreme gift of marriage and contribute very substantially to the welfare of their parents (Vatican II).

you could try this link. I didn't read through it all, but it's where I found the quote above:

[url="http://www.catholicmatch.com/pl/pages/community/articles/details.html?ra=1;id=99"]http://www.catholicmatch.com/pl/pages/comm...html?ra=1;id=99[/url]

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thanks, i already tried that quote, but he didn't equate "ordained toward" with "primary purpose". he admitted it might be read that way, but he didn't think it was clear enough in light of the huge emphasis the ccc and v2 place on the unitive purpose. i should add that he has a liberal professor on his side as well. = (

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Noel's angel

Have you tried this yet??

[url="http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9911frs.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9911frs.asp[/url]

Not from post Vatican II but some VERY solid arguements there :)

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thanks, i just sent it to him. but he'll probably look at those quotes like he does limbo - something the Church has never authoratatively defined and indeed is in the contemporary process of rejecting.

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phatcatholic

here's one [emphasis mine]:

[b]Casti Connubii (On Christian Marriage}[/b]
[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P11CASTI.HTM"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P11CASTI.HTM[/url]
[i]Pope Pius XI[/i][list][b]11. [/b]Thus amongst the blessings of marriage, [i][b]the child holds the first place[/b][/i]. And indeed the Creator of the human race Himself, Who in His goodness wishes to use men as His helpers in the propagation of life, taught this when, instituting marriage in Paradise, He said to our first parents, and through them to all future spouses: "Increase and multiply, and fill the earth."[12] As St. Augustine admirably deduces from the words of the holy Apostle Saint Paul to Timothy[13] when he says: "The Apostle himself is therefore a witness that marriage is for the sake of generation: 'I wish,' he says, 'young girls to marry.' And, as if someone said to him, 'Why?,' he immediately adds: 'To bear children, to be mothers of families'."[14]

[b]12. [/b]How great a boon of God this is, and how great a blessing of matrimony is clear from a consideration of man's dignity and of his sublime end. For man surpasses all other visible creatures by the superiority of his rational nature alone. Besides, God wishes men to be born not only that they should live and fill the earth, but much more that they may be worshippers of God, that they may know Him and love Him and finally enjoy Him for ever in heaven; and [i][b]this end[/b][/i], since man is raised by God in a marvelous way to the supernatural order, [i][b]surpasses all that eye hath seen, and ear heard, and all that hath entered into the heart of man[/b][/i].[15] From which it is easily seen how great a gift of divine goodness and how remarkable a fruit of marriage are children born by the omnipotent power of God through the cooperation of those bound in wedlock.

[i]footnotes[/i]:
12. Gen., 1, 28.
13. I Tim., V, 14.
14. St. August., [i]De bono coniug[/i]., cap. 24 n. 32.
15. I Cor., II 9

[/list]

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Thanks Phat. I'll keep looking as well...this should be put together in a track when the resources are exhausted, seeing as it's been so difficult to find.

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phatcatholic

[b]Rerum Novarum (On Capital and Labor)[/b]
[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/L13RERUM.HTM"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/L13RERUM.HTM[/url]
[i]Pope Leo XIII[/i][list][b]12. [/b]The rights here spoken of, belonging to each individual man, are seen in much stronger light when considered in relation to man's social and domestic obligations. In choosing a state of life, it is indisputable that all are at full liberty to follow the counsel of Jesus Christ as to observing virginity, or to bind themselves by the marriage tie. No human law can abolish the natural and original right of marriage, nor in any way limit [i][b]the chief and principal purpose of marriage ordained by God's authority from the beginning: "Increase and multiply."[/b][/i][3] Hence we have the family, the "society" of a man's house—a society very small, one must admit, but none the less a true society, and one older than any State. Consequently, it has rights and duties peculiar to itself which are quite independent of the State.
[/list]

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phatcatholic

i haven't read through these in their entirety to see if they are helpful, but you may also wish to read:

[b]Arcanum (On Christian Marriage)[/b]
[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/L13CMR.HTM"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/L13CMR.HTM[/url]
[i]Pope Leo XIII[/i]

[b]Donum Vitae (Instruction on Respect for Human Life)[/b]
[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFHUMAN.HTM"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFHUMAN.HTM[/url]
[i]CDF[/i]

[b]Humanae Vitae (On Human Life)[/b]
[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P6HUMANA.HTM"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P6HUMANA.HTM[/url]
[i]Pope Paul VI[/i]

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phatcatholic

[b]Gaudiem et Spes (The Church in the Modern World)[/b]
[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/V2MODWOR.HTM"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/V2MODWOR.HTM[/url]
[i]Second Vatican Council[/i][list][b]48.[/b] The intimate partnership of married life and love has been established by the Creator and qualified by His laws, and is rooted in the jugal covenant of irrevocable personal consent. Hence by that human act whereby spouses mutually bestow and accept each other a relationship arises which by divine will and in the eyes of society too is a lasting one. For the good of the spouses and their off-springs as well as of society, the existence of the sacred bond no longer depends on human decisions alone. For, God Himself is the author of matrimony, endowed as it is with various benefits and purposes.(1) All of these have a very decisive bearing on the continuation of the human race, on the personal development and eternal destiny of the individual members of a family, and on the dignity, stability, peace and prosperity of the family itself and of human society as a whole. [i][b]By their very nature[/b][/i], the institution of matrimony itself and conjugal love are [i][b]ordained for[/b][/i] the procreation and education of children, and find in them their [i][b]ultimate crown[/b][/i]. Thus a man and a woman, who by their compact of conjugal love "are no longer two, but one flesh" (Matt. 19:ff), render mutual help and service to each other through an intimate union of their persons and of their actions. Through this union they experience the meaning of their oneness and attain to it with growing perfection day by day. As a mutual gift of two persons, this intimate union and the good of the children impose total fidelity on the spouses and argue for an unbreakable oneness between them.(2)
[/list]

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phatcatholic

[b]Allocution to Midwives[/b]
[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P511029.HTM"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P511029.HTM[/url]
[i]Pope Pius XII[/i][list][b]The primary end of marriage[/b]

Now, the truth is that matrimony, as an institution of nature, in virtue of the Creator's will, has not as a primary and intimate end the personal perfection of the married couple but the procreation and upbringing of a new life. The other ends, inasmuch as they are intended by nature, are not equally primary, much less superior to the primary end, but are essentially subordinated to it. This is true of every marriage, even if no offspring result, just as of every eye it can be said that it is destined and formed to see, even if, in abnormal cases arising from special internal or external conditions, it will never be possible to achieve visual perception.
[/list]
note: all the paragraphs in this section of the pope's address affirm procreation as the primary end of marriage.

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phatcatholic

in her article [url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=5822"][i][b]On the Primary Purpose of Marriage[/b][/i][/url], Jennaya Arias writes: "Traditionally speaking, the primary purpose of marriage is the generation and nurturing of offspring; the second purpose is the mutual help of spouses, and the third is the remedy for concupiscence."[b]1[/b]

what we are interested in is the footnote, which reads:[list][b]1[/b] Ludwig Ott, [i]Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma[/i] (Rockford, IL: Tan Books, 1974), p. 462. Here Ott references the 1944 decision of the Holy Office, which clearly reaffirmed that the primary purpose of marriage is the procreation and upbringing of children. Even though many (if not all) of the documents of the Magisterium on this topic since Vatican II have not explicitily organized the ends of marriage in terms of primary and secondary, nonetheless, none of these documents teach anything which cannot be interpreted in terms of the 1944 decision of the Holy Office. That in the Pope's mind, at least, no change has been made on this matter of Church teaching, can be seen in the Holy Father's work, [i]Love and Responsibility[/i], trans. H. T. Willetts (San Francisco: Ignatius, 1981), pp. 66-69. Therein, the Holy Father lays out, in no equivocal terms, the traditional teaching of the Church on this matter both as unchanged and as unchangeable. Although this work is non-magisterial in character, it is nonetheless quite significant insofar as it expresses the mind of the Holy Father. In the same section of the work, the Pope also makes the important point that the second end of marriage, namely, "mutual help," should not be translated as "mutual love," as it sometimes has been. This would be a mistake since it would seem to limit love between spouses to the second end of marriage, as if it were somehow separable from the first and third ends. Rather, the Holy Father teaches that love must be the indispensable moral environment in which the three ends of marriage are pursued. This present essay should be read as in complete agreement with what the Holy Father says on these matters.
[/list]

Edited by phatcatholic
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The 28th session of the Council of Trent spoke on the Sacrament of Marriage and the like I do believe.

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