babygirl Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 [url="http://en.gloria.tv/?media=36723"] [/url][url="http://en.gloria.tv/?media=36723"]http://en.gloria.tv/?media=36723[/url]
zunshynn Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 Wow... interesting. It wasn't really an after death experience though, because he never actually died... And I'm pretty sure people in hell are not capable of trying to dissuade someone else from going to hell... or rather that they would never want to, because that would require genuine love, which they do not have. And I couldn't find Part 2?
rkwright Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 I can't watch the video because I'm at school, but I have seen videos of numerous atheists that did in fact medically die for some period of time, went to hell, then were revived and came back to tell their story for some time. One I remember was particularly creepy. The guy died, said he could see his body in the hospital bed and these shadowy beings came to him. They told him he was dead and they were taking him on. They we're mean just indifferent to him. He kinda lingered around I guess trying to make sense of it (probably saying "What? I'm dead? thats supposed to be it!). Pretty soon those beings started to get belligerent and were dragging him out. He ended up being dragged to hell by these beings which he later learned were demons. Thankfully for him he was revived, came back and shortly converted.
Brother Adam Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 Those stories do not match up with what we know about death from the saints and the church though.
rkwright Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='29 October 2009 - 12:22 PM' timestamp='1256836934' post='1993371'] Those stories do not match up with what we know about death from the saints and the church though. [/quote] How so?
Brother Adam Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 Immediately upon death we experience particular judgment, a judgment which belongs to Christ alone. The saints also are clear that the soul naturally goes the way in which is proper to the soul (heaven or hell). No one is dragged to hell in such a sense because the soul that will go to hell finds it almost a refuge from the reality of God who the soul has rejected.
Nihil Obstat Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='29 October 2009 - 12:42 PM' timestamp='1256838134' post='1993384'] Immediately upon death we experience particular judgment, a judgment which belongs to Christ alone. The saints also are clear that the soul naturally goes the way in which is proper to the soul (heaven or hell). No one is dragged to hell in such a sense because the soul that will go to hell finds it almost a refuge from the reality of God who the soul has rejected. [/quote] Near death or technical death experiences seem to be pretty unreliable witnesses to reality. Could it be safe to assume that it could have been a delusion, or maybe a vision from God in more of an allegorical form?
rkwright Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='29 October 2009 - 12:42 PM' timestamp='1256838134' post='1993384'] Immediately upon death we experience particular judgment, a judgment which belongs to Christ alone. The saints also are clear that the soul naturally goes the way in which is proper to the soul (heaven or hell). No one is dragged to hell in such a sense because the soul that will go to hell finds it almost a refuge from the reality of God who the soul has rejected. [/quote] Well I don't think this man was so much dragged to hell, as it was more like he didn't understand what was going on. I mean in a sense you make it sound like the souls in hell "enjoy" it there. I understand the teaching on immediately after death we experience the particular judgment, but as the threads on ghosts indicate this may mean different things. Is the witness testimony reliable? Well the person who is testifying certainly believed it was real. Real enough to convert from atheist to Christian. Second, everything he mentioned in seemed to match what we know of hell.
philothea Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='29 October 2009 - 01:50 PM' timestamp='1256838644' post='1993391'] Near death or technical death experiences seem to be pretty unreliable witnesses to reality. Could it be safe to assume that it could have been a delusion, or maybe a vision from God in more of an allegorical form? [/quote] Yeah, I'd rate them kind of like dreams. I'm sure people's brains are trying to make sense of all the pain and oxygen deprivation. Which is not to say that God can't use that moment, but it's unlikely to be what a person experiences when they die permanently.
Nihil Obstat Posted October 29, 2009 Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) [quote name='philothea' date='29 October 2009 - 04:31 PM' timestamp='1256851865' post='1993522'] Yeah, I'd rate them kind of like dreams. I'm sure people's brains are trying to make sense of all the pain and oxygen deprivation. Which is not to say that God can't use that moment, but it's unlikely to be what a person experiences when they die permanently. [/quote] Yes, this is what I was trying to say. I think I was distracted by some really spicy beef. 1) It might just be a dream or hallucination. 2) The dream or hallucination might be utilized by God for a more important purpose. So if 2) is correct, is it 'real'? In a sense, I'd say yes, it's a a vision of some type of reality from God because it was sent by God. At least 'more real' than a plain delusion, but maybe 'less real' than your final death? In that last point I have in mind The Great Divorce by C.S. Lewis, in which the main characters 'field trip' to the area just outside of heaven was experienced by him as painfully *more real* than the world of purgation he had been living in already. Real in the sense that he was like a shadow in that world, and the saints who came from heaven itself were more real still, so that they were painful to look at and hear. Edited October 29, 2009 by Nihil Obstat
mommas_boy Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 Anybody else catch the name of the first guy on the film? Ronald Reagan. Here's what Reagan had to say: "In 1972, my life was broken. I was a drug addict. I was a criminal." I know it might seem a little twisted, but I chuckled at the novelty.
cassandragirl Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 [quote name='rkwright' date='29 October 2009 - 12:33 PM' timestamp='1256837588' post='1993377'] How so? [/quote] Many of the saints visited Hell and experienced it even though they were not dead and they spoke with those in hell. In St Faustina's diary, Jesus indicated that he gives souls the offer of mercy at least 3 times at death and many times during life. Perhaps these are the offers of mercy. Howard Storm was one atheist who died and was being dragged to hell but when he called out to God, Jesus came to him and he was brought back. Perhaps if he did not say that one last prayer - he would have stayed dead and gone to hell. It turned out a nun who met him was praying for him and this is what brought down God's mercy. God loves us to excess and will do anything to save us.
Nihil Obstat Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) [quote name='cassandragirl' date='29 October 2009 - 08:12 PM' timestamp='1256865156' post='1993645'] Many of the saints visited Hell and experienced it even though they were not dead and they spoke with those in hell. In St Faustina's diary, Jesus indicated that he gives souls the offer of mercy at least 3 times at death and many times during life. Perhaps these are the offers of mercy. Howard Storm was one atheist who died and was being dragged to hell but when he called out to God, Jesus came to him and he was brought back. Perhaps if he did not say that one last prayer - he would have stayed dead and gone to hell. It turned out a nun who met him was praying for him and this is what brought down God's mercy. God loves us to excess and will do anything to save us. [/quote] To be fair, and a bit of a keener because I know someone else will just say it if I don't, what we hear from the saints is considered private revelation and we are not bound to believe in it. Except the last part of course, is indisputable. Edited October 30, 2009 by Nihil Obstat
tinytherese Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 I remember working with a Protestant woman who used to be a nurse who would be right there at times when some people died. She recalled how people who claimed to have rejected God would grab a hold of her hand really tightly, they would yell, claim that they saw fire or satan or something. I do remember her claiming, "All they needed to do was say the name of Jesus and they would have been saved." I was the only Catholic in the room during the conversation. I didn't say anything though. I'm not saying that I buy what she says though.
Fidei Defensor Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 I don't think I would trust the random signals my brain spits out as I'm dying as reasonable proof of a god or an afterlife.
ardillacid Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='30 October 2009 - 01:09 AM' timestamp='1256879355' post='1993785'] I don't think I would trust the random signals my brain spits out as I'm dying as reasonable proof of a god or an afterlife. [/quote] werd
Nihil Obstat Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='30 October 2009 - 12:09 AM' timestamp='1256879355' post='1993785'] I don't think I would trust the random signals my brain spits out as I'm dying as reasonable proof of a god or an afterlife. [/quote] I don't take these random signals my brain spits out as it looks at a series of squiggly lines and pictures as proof of YOU! So ha.
Katholikos Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) Here's the link to a priest's interview on EWTN with Mother Angelica about his Near Death Experience that changed his life forever. http://en.gloria.tv/?media=17594 P.S. I'd better fix my sig -- Father Damien is now SAINT DAMIEN. WOOHOO Edited October 30, 2009 by Katholikos
jeffpugh Posted October 30, 2009 Posted October 30, 2009 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='30 October 2009 - 01:09 AM' timestamp='1256879355' post='1993785'] I don't think I would trust the random signals my brain spits out as I'm dying as reasonable proof of a god or an afterlife. [/quote] That's reasonable.
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