Hassan Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 Any attempts to establish, through the use of reason, the immorality of gay sex can be submitted here and we can look at its merits. Or sexual acts between straight couples which isn't deemed kosher by the Church (anal, oral what have you). I suspect that this thread will not get a lot of replies. And I suspect there is a reason for that. Primarily that no such argument ca be supplied.
Don John of Austria Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 1. Sex is only moral in a sacramental marriage, 2. marriage is between a man and a woman who become one flesh, 3. therefore gay sex is immoral
Kitty Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) My answer is no, it is not morally wrong. Edited July 3, 2009 by Kitty
Resurrexi Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='Kitty' post='1908823' date='Jul 2 2009, 11:42 PM']My answer is no, it is not morally wrong.[/quote] I disagree with this post.
Kitty Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1908824' date='Jul 3 2009, 12:42 AM']I disagree with this post.[/quote] I disagree with your disagreement.
Don John of Austria Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 Sex is for procreation as well as unification to be moral it must meet both functions Homosexual sex cannot be procreative Therefore homosexual sex is not moral.
Resurrexi Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='Don John of Austria' post='1908848' date='Jul 2 2009, 11:51 PM']Sex is for procreation as well as unification to be moral it must meet both functions Homosexual sex cannot be procreative Therefore homosexual sex is not moral.[/quote] I like syllogisms.
mortify Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 Interesting how numerous independent cultures realized the immorality of homosexuality, but modern man has such a difficult time grasping it. I don't think it's because modern man is less reasonable, just that his reason has become so clouded.
OraProMe Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='mortify' post='1908861' date='Jul 2 2009, 11:56 PM']Interesting how numerous independent cultures realized the immorality of homosexuality, but modern man has such a difficult time grasping it. I don't think it's because modern man is less reasonable, just that his reason has become so clouded.[/quote] First, I'd like to think that man improves as time goes on. Many of the past societies you're talking about also encouraged anti-semitism, racism, sexism and a host of other no-no's. Second, your statement is wrong. The ancient greeks held homosexual relationships in high-regard and it was not uncommon for men in early islamic society to appreciate the beauty of adolescent boys. Infact this can be seen in a lot of art work from the period.
OraProMe Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='Don John of Austria' post='1908848' date='Jul 2 2009, 11:51 PM']Sex is for procreation as well as unification to be moral it must meet both functions Homosexual sex cannot be procreative Therefore homosexual sex is not moral.[/quote] Why must sex be procreative? Can you provide a logical argument that doesn't consist of "because the bible/magisterium says so" to prove your assertion?
OraProMe Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1908780' date='Jul 2 2009, 11:17 PM']You should have made a poll. [/quote] You of all people should know that the consensus of the majority doesn't equal what's right. Besides a poll would be useless, the outcomes pretty predictable.
Don John of Austria Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) [quote name='OraProMe' post='1908986' date='Jul 3 2009, 02:04 AM']Why must sex be procreative? Can you provide a logical argument that doesn't consist of "because the bible/magisterium says so" to prove your assertion?[/quote] Absolutely. Sex is designed to create offspring. THat is the reason for its existance. Sex is fun, but it is fun so that we , being intelegent, will have it, and procreate. That is its biological purpose. It has no other reason for existing. Saying why should sex be procreative is like asking why must kidneys fiddler our blood, because that is what they are for. By the way, I would say the exact same thing if I was an athiest. Stupid thing keeps "correcting" the word FIL TER to fiddler. what is wrong with FIL TER? Edited July 3, 2009 by Don John of Austria
Don John of Austria Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='OraProMe' post='1908987' date='Jul 3 2009, 02:05 AM']You of all people should know that the consensus of the majority doesn't equal what's right. [color="#2E8B57"] Yes we agree there.[/color] Besides a poll would be useless, the outcomes pretty predictable. [color="#2E8B57"]Interestingly, I agree there as well.[/color][/quote]
Kitty Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) Dolphins have sex for fun. And what about infertile couples? Are they stifling the creation of more offspring as well? Edited July 3, 2009 by Kitty
OraProMe Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='Don John of Austria' post='1908988' date='Jul 3 2009, 01:09 AM']Absolutely. Sex is designed to create offspring. That is the reason for its existance.[/quote] That's the exact assumption I'm asking someone to prove from an unbiased point of view. I could say "sex is designed to make you feel great. That is the reason for its existance. Children are just a nasty STD" following your logic. You can't just base an entire argument on one massive assumption.
Don John of Austria Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 [quote name='Kitty' post='1908995' date='Jul 3 2009, 02:19 AM']Dolphins have sex for fun.[/quote] Well that is still debated. Some biologist do indeed believe that is the case though. However, dolphins, like humans, are smart enough that if it was not fun, they would not do it at all. Regardless that does not impact the purpose of sex is procreation.
Don John of Austria Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) [quote name='OraProMe' post='1908997' date='Jul 3 2009, 02:19 AM']That's the exact assumption I'm asking someone to prove from an unbiased point of view. I could say "sex is designed to make you feel great. That is the reason for its existance. Children are just a nasty STD" following your logic. You can't just base an entire argument on one massive assumption.[/quote] No, I am not making an assumption. Assuming you believe in evolution, sex evolved as a form of reproduction that mixed genes of differant individuals. This is its purpose, to procreate while increasing genetic diversity among the offspring. That is its purpose. That is why it evolved. Most creatures do not have fun when they have sex, that is reserved for the higher life forms. If you are a strict 7 day creationist then "The bible said so" should do, so i am assuming you believe in evolution. Edited July 3, 2009 by Don John of Austria
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