The Pope, The Scandals, And The Media

[Era Might]

I will say that I don't trust the media one bit. I don't trust sensationalistic headlines trying to directly connect the Pope with the sexual abuse scandals.

That being said, the way I see this situation, you can't really trust that any particular Bishop was not directly responsible in scandals, not even the Pope. It's kind of like steroids in baseball...how can you trust anyone who says that they weren't involved? You can't accuse people without evidence...and yet you can't trust them either.

So, what I'm curious about is, suppose (hypothetically) that the Pope were directly connected to the sexual abuse scandals (i.e., not by abusing anyone himself, but by how he dealt with Priests who did abuse). What would that mean for him as Pope? Would he have to retire? By "have to retire," I don't mean in a legal sense. Obviously, nobody can make him retire. But in the media-driven world we live in, could the Pope continue to function as Pope if he were implicated in the scandals somehow? Would he have to resign like Cardinal Law did back in 2002?

The Church has not really experienced any direct Papal scandals in the modern media age. So that's what my question is getting at...how would the Church deal with it.

Edited March 26, 2010 by Era Might

[God Conquers]

Interesting question.

If we could know [b]for certain[/b] that the Pope was involved, which I don't think we ever could:

A bad Pope would continually deny involvement and hide behind the Church and the Vatican City.

A good Pope would submit to civil authorities, seek repentance and make amends.

As we have experienced in the past, personal failings do not cancel the spiritual authority of the Holy Father.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Era Might' date='26 March 2010 - 04:25 PM' timestamp='1269631523' post='2080770']
I will say that I don't trust the media one bit. I don't trust sensationalistic headlines trying to directly connect the Pope with the sexual abuse scandals.

That being said, the way I see this situation, you can't really trust that any particular Bishop was not directly responsible in scandals, not even the Pope. It's kind of like steroids in baseball...how can you trust anyone who says that they weren't involved? You can't accuse people without evidence...and yet you can't trust them either.

So, what I'm curious about is, suppose (hypothetically) that the Pope were directly connected to the sexual abuse scandals (i.e., not by abusing anyone himself, but by how he dealt with Priests who did abuse). What would that mean for him as Pope? Would he have to retire? By "have to retire," I don't mean in a legal sense. Obviously, nobody can make him retire. But in the world where we live, where the media traffics in scandal, could the Pope continue to function as Pope if he were implicated in the scandals somehow? Would he have to resign like Cardinal Law did back in 2002?

The Church has not really experienced any direct Papal scandals in the modern media age. So that's what my question is getting at...how would the Church deal with it.
[/quote]
The Holy Father is not implicated. Here is an article with an excellent summation of what happened.:
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0329.htm

[Era Might]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='26 March 2010 - 03:34 PM' timestamp='1269632071' post='2080776']
The Holy Father is not implicated. Here is an article with an excellent summation of what happened.:
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0329.htm
[/quote]
The question I'm asking is about a hypothetical situation. I'm not asking about whether he is or is not actually implicated.

Edited March 26, 2010 by Era Might

[Apotheoun]

I do not believe that the Pope can be made to resign.

[cmotherofpirl]

A Pope can choose to resign, but cannot be forced to resign.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='26 March 2010 - 02:04 PM' timestamp='1269633844' post='2080807']
A Pope can choose to resign, but cannot be forced to resign.
[/quote]
Yeah, that is my understanding too.

[MIKolbe]

How would the Church deal with it?

The same way she has dealt with everything else in the past 2000 years:

By being led, sometimes by the ear, through the grace and love of God through His Holy Spirit.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='26 March 2010 - 04:03 PM' timestamp='1269633788' post='2080804']
I do not believe that the Pope can be made to resign.
[/quote]
Yes. As I said in my original post, I'm not talking about a legal removal from office. But, as in the case of Cardinal Law, an implication in a scandal could make it practically impossible for the Pope to function as Pope. In Cardinal Law's case, it is not unusual for Bishops to resign (in fact, they are required to resign by a certain age), so his resignation was not unprecedented. But Papal resignations have only taken place a few times in history.

Also, I am not asking how would the Church deal with the matter in a spiritual sense (i.e., trusting in the Holy Spirit). I am asking about how the Church would deal with it as a practical situation.

Edited March 26, 2010 by Era Might

[MIKolbe]

so saying they would practically trust the Holy Spirit would not help you?

[Era Might]

[quote name='MIkolbe' date='26 March 2010 - 04:32 PM' timestamp='1269635578' post='2080841']
so saying they would practically trust the Holy Spirit would not help you?
[/quote]
Not necessarily, no. If I have a wound to my body, I can trust in the Holy Spirit...but that's not going to stop the wound from bleeding. To stop the wound, I need practical medical attention.

Edited March 26, 2010 by Era Might

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Era Might' date='26 March 2010 - 01:34 PM' timestamp='1269635644' post='2080843']
Not necessarily, no. If I have a wound to my body, I can trust in the Holy Spirit...but that's not going to stop the wound from bleeding. To stop the wound, I need practical medical attention.
[/quote]

a scandal like that would be quite a wound to the church, not "just a flesh wound"
well, if you were to trust in the Holy Spirit and abstain from an actual bandage or stitches, it would eventually stop bleeding, when you are dead. Or you might survive with a disfiguring scar.

i think lack of a practical intervention by the church in such a hypothetical situation would have much the same results.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Era Might' date='26 March 2010 - 02:27 PM' timestamp='1269635238' post='2080836']
Yes. As I said in my original post, I'm not talking about a legal removal from office. But, as in the case of Cardinal Law, an implication in a scandal could make it practically impossible for the Pope to function as Pope. In Cardinal Law's case, it is not unusual for Bishops to resign (in fact, they are required to resign by a certain age), so his resignation was not unprecedented. But Papal resignations have only taken place a few times in history.

Also, I am not asking how would the Church deal with the matter in a spiritual sense (i.e., trusting in the Holy Spirit). I am asking about how the Church would deal with it as a practical situation.
[/quote]
Cardinals can be removed. The pope, if he does not want to resign, cannot be made to resign even if his continuing in office has a deleterious impact on the governance of the Church. The Roman Church's code of canon law says: "The First See is judged by no one" [canon 1404].

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Era Might' date='26 March 2010 - 02:27 PM' timestamp='1269635238' post='2080836']
Also, I am not asking how would the Church deal with the matter in a spiritual sense (i.e., trusting in the Holy Spirit). I am asking about how the Church would deal with it as a practical situation.
[/quote]
The Church would have to be long-suffering and wait for the pope to voluntarily resign, and if he chose not to resign there is nothing that can be done to make him resign. Of course the pope is mortal and so eventually he would be removed from his office by death.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='26 March 2010 - 04:46 PM' timestamp='1269636366' post='2080851']
Cardinals can be removed. The pope, if he does not want to resign, cannot be made to resign even if his continuing in office has a deleterious impact on the governance of the Church. The Roman Church's code of canon law says: "The First See is judged by no one" [canon 1404].
[/quote]
Yes. I am not speaking of removing the Pope. As God Conquers said above, a bad Pope would just hold on to his office no matter the consequences for the Church. An honest Pope would deal with the situation. That is what I am asking about, how would the Church deal with the situation.

Edited March 26, 2010 by Era Might