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Francis Clare

The Benedictine Daughters Of Divine Will

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HopefulBride
[quote name='marigold' timestamp='1331806291' post='2401029']
Chiming in on something I'm not really familiar with... but why would God supposedly change his mind and uproot people from the monastery/order they've committed themselves to for life? I read on here that the RC Church doesn't consider a vocation fully 'realised' until solemn vows anyway. Why is it possible to just be dispensed of these if you 'feel called' to do something else?

In our understanding (obvs may not be the RC one) once you're done, you're done for life, and you can't ever stop being a nun even if you run away and shack up with a man and have babies. That's why it takes such a long time to get to the point of no return. But then I guess we aren't restricted to particular orders, 'charisms' etc., so where there is a certain amount of moving around after vows (though rare) it might not cause the disruption that it would in a RC context. (It's probably just a matter of moving house and getting used to a different schedule, rather than new habit, new materials to study, new saints, new 'spirituality' etc.) Does that make sense? I'm not trying to criticise anyone here, I'd really just be interested to know more about the attitude towards solemn vows and the 'new charisms' that individuals come up with.
[/quote]

Those sisters in solemn vows can never be dispensed of their vows (I guess I didn't explain fully, which is why I linked to Sr. Mary Catharine's explanation) even the Holy See cannot dispense them of the obligations (only the vows of the community) For example an OP sisters who vows poverty, Chastity and Obedience as lived by say the OPs of Saint Cecilia can ask to be dispensed of her vows so that she can live them out as a Sister of Life vows of Poverty, Chastity, Obedience and the Protection of life as lived out by the SVs. However, if you feel called to serve as a nun in a different capacity, that's where they come in. For example, the sister who started the SSEWs was an OP, I don't know if she was ever dispensed of her vows but if she is now an SSEW then she is no longer an OP and was dispensed of her vows as an OP so that she could take vows as a SSEW. Take Mother Teresa, she started the MCs while still a sister of Loreto, as a matter of fact I believe she went on sabbatical to discern the[i] call within a call[/i] that was given to her by Our Lord. She didn't not take vows as an MC until later on. Many sisters, Priests find that they receive a call within a call and while still remaining true to their vows as a religious, they continue on to discern whatever further call they have received. The CFRs was started by Fr. Groeschel and a couple of other priests/brothers while they were still under vows from another community, it wasn't until later that they took vows as CFRs.

I hope this makes sense, the two sisters are still consecrated to the Lord. It's just that Mother Gabrielle is now serving in a different capacity and I'm sure after years of discernment it was confirmed by her SD and the new bishop she serves under.

I hope I didn't muddy things up even more. Edited by HopefulBride

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mme_hardy
How nice to see you! ::waves::

Edit: Please ignore everything else I said; I was wrong. See [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/67897-nuns-picture-thread/page__st__160"]Sr. Mary Catherine[/url] instead. Edited by mme_hardy

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HopefulBride
[quote name='marigold' timestamp='1331818263' post='2401075']
So the vows get re-attached to a different community?
[/quote]

Yes, she will continue to live out a life of chastity, poverty and obedience but in whatever way being a Benedictine Daughter of Divine Will calls her to live out those vows. Obedience in one community may not be the same as another just like poverty in community x might not be lived out the same way it is lived out in community y. Does that make sense to you or is it only making sense in my head?

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marigold
[quote name='HopefulBride' timestamp='1331869470' post='2401683']
Yes, she will continue to live out a life of chastity, poverty and obedience but in whatever way being a Benedictine Daughter of Divine Will calls her to live out those vows. Obedience in one community may not be the same as another just like poverty in community x might not be lived out the same way it is lived out in community y. Does that make sense to you or is it only making sense in my head?
[/quote]

No it makes sense in my head too :) I believe we are basically arriving at the same conclusion from slightly different routes! Thanks for taking the time to explain. :love:

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Lilllabettt
Ummmm I'm pretty sure the obligations attached to solemn vows can be dispensed. Unless I've been terribly misguided by my teachers -- I believe the mainstream theology of vows says that obligations of ALL kinds of vows can be dispensed.

Just from practical experience ... certainly there are people in history who began their adult lives as solemnly professed friars, monks and nuns, and ended them as married people with children - remaining faithful Catholics all the while. Obviously it is not a thing lightly done, but it is done. Edited by Lilllabettt

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Maggyie
The Catholic Encyclopedia has a good article on [url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15511a.htm"]vows[/url].

Solemn vows are more difficult to be dispensed from than simple vows. Certainly it is reserved to the Holy See. But they are not "indispensable."

This contrasts with marriage vows which confer a sacrament and which therefore (provided the conditions are right) are indissoluble.

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maximillion
I Professed Solomn Vows and was released from them by the Holy See in the 80's. It is a long process ( or it was for me) an not one to be undertaken lightly, if at all. Only the fact that it was clear to me and to others at that time that the community was failing and was to be suppressed lead me to this, and this was a factor in granting my dispensation from Vows.
In my heart I have kept those vows, living within the means He has given, obedient to the Church and to His Will in my life, and as chaste as I ever was in the monastery.

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Saintclare2009

I was saddened to hear that mother Mary Catherine left mother angelica's order. Mother must have been sad about that. But if god leads you to another convent, if it's his will, that's all that matters. I was surprised to hear about it though. Who could refuse Italy! Such a beautiful and peaceful place. :)

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Francis Clare

The story of Sister Mary Catherine - now Mother Gabrielle - can be found in Raymond Arroyo's latest book about Mother Angelica.  It was the decision by the Vatican that both the newly elected and the former Vicar go on sabbatical.  It was not Mother Angelica's doing.  The order Mother Gabrielle founded seems to be doing relatively well in Italy for being in existence for short a short time - 6 or 7 Sisters in Italy and 1 in the U.S. There are Sisters who were with the PCPA's in Hanceville and left to go to Italy as well.  If you go to their website you'll notice they took off any age restrictions and admit candidates on a case by case basis with pretty much no formal requirements.  We have no requirements and ask for no dowries from those interested in entering our community.  Tell us a little about yourself in the comment box and we'll get to know one another through email first.  Then, if the Holy Spirit continues to guide you toward a religious vocation with us, a few Skype and/or telephone calls would follow.  Lastly, before a final decision is made, each aspirant must visit our convent in Italy for 1-3 months to see if she truly feels at home and at peace living the life of a Benedictine Daughter.    

 

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Saintclare2009

Franciscan to Benedictine ? What's next,:  the Dominican order? Oh my! As my parents say: that's a bad sign! ( Not to judge) but it's confusing. Stability from one convent to another is a huge red flag! Something doesn't seem right.

 I forgot to thank you Francis Clare for your input. ( My intention is to never be rude) I have watched mother Angelica and still do! I knew she would never ask someone to leave, unless they were breaking convent rules. I visited the monastery several years ago, mother commented how pretty I was.... which was a compliment because she says what's on her mind... I love that. But honestly... I met many of the sisters on retreat and I have to tell you sister Joanna was very sweet and her beauty was striking. I'll never forget mother and I tell my friends often that I'm so happy I had the chance to meet her. She was such a holy person. Thanks again and take care! God bless. :)

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Francis Clare

Well, this is a totally new religious order that has absolutely nothing to do with the PCPA's. Mother Gabrielle, along with several other PCPA's, were good friends with the late Fr. Jaques Daly , (a very well known Benedictine priest who I once had the honor of having as a professor) who frequently visited Hanceville to provide instruction and spiritual direction..  After a hotly contested and bitter election for Mother Vicrar, both candidates (Sr. Mary Catherine and Sr  Margaret Mary - or perhaps I have her names reversed) were  ordered to take a sabattical by Rome. The newly elected Vicar, Sr. Margaret Mary  (who singlehandedly managed to send most of the postulants and novices home as soon as she took office as she personally thought they had no vocations)  left  and is currently  living as a Carmelite hermit.  Hence the appearance of the Sr. from another order to clean house and get things back on track and run the Order until a new Reverend Mother could be named - which turned out to be Mother Dolores Marie previously from St. Joseph's Adoration Monastery in Charlotte, N.C.  All the nuns living there were called back to Hanceville as well.

 St. Mary Catherine (now known as Mother Gabrielle) was encouraged by Fr. Daly during her sabbatical year to learn Italain and think and pray about beginning a new religious order in Italy with an emphasis on the teachings of Luisa Piccarretta (sp) and the Divine Will --- hence the name.

   I don't know how long ago you visited Hanceville, but Mother Angelica (RIP) has been dead for about 1 1/2 years now and was completely unable to speak and was bedridden for a few years prior to her death.

Sr. Joanna was one of the Phoenix Phive (as a junior professed) who went to Arizona to establish Our Lady of Solitude Monastery.  She discerned out several years ago, unless we're talking about a different St. Johanna (sp).

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Saintclare2009

Hope Francis Clare, I was there to visit on retreat shortly before mother Angelica's stroke I believe. So it was a while back. They had a lot of sisters back then. Most were cloistered, but they had about 6 externs I think. I met sister Jacinta, and sister st John, I think it was, her sister was sister Esther, who then was one of the externs. The monastery was absolutely beautiful! I'm very happy, I went on retreat there. It's funny because I was there on st Clare's feast day.... the sister Joanna I'm talking about was there in Alabama at the time, when it was time to say the rosary, ( I was discerning then) she saved a seat for me... I was very young then, I remember being in awe, of how holy the monastery was. One elderly nun, I don't remember her name she was Italian and I think had an accent and I was talking with her as well. I'll never forget my retreat there. :)

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Makarioi

If you read Raymond Arroyo's book: Mother Angelica Her Grand Silence: The Last Years and Living Legacy, it will help you understand what went on. Mother told Raymond she wanted people to understand what happened, but to wait to have this particular book released until after her death. There are some fascinating things in the book but most of all realize that nuns/sisters are people, too. Raymond has other books on Mother as well. He was very close to her. 

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