Women's Orders!

[Benedictus]

I come across a few Women's orders and thought I'd link to them, in case someone may benefit, as they look really interesting.  You may know them already, but anyhow:

Servants of the Lord and the Virgin of Matara 

Disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ

Franciscan Sisters T.O.R. of Penance of the Sorrowful Mother

 

[nikita92]

Thank you I was unaware of the Disciples of The Lord Jesus Christ.

[Benedictus]

Three more gems: (I seem to find more Women's orders that I like than Men's  :hehe2: )

Dominican Nuns of Summit New Jersey, USA 

Monastery of the Immaculate Heart of Mary Vermont, USA

Sisters of the Visitation Ohio, USA

 

Edited August 5, 2013 by Benedictus

[Anselm]

Benedictus, this is all you need ;)

 

http://www.benedictines.org.uk/

[Benedictus]

Benedictus, this is all you need ;)

 

http://www.benedictines.org.uk/

Well, if only that was true  :hehe2: Although I am considering two EBC communities there are a few aspects that make me keep searching onward, just in case I've missed something  :bounce:

[Anselm]

Well, you know where I'm going - come and join me in the Novitiate!

[Lilllabettt]

Servants of the Lord and the Virgin of Matara

 

Those discerning with the IVE institute should know that the male branch has been troubled and has required Vatican intervention in the leadership structure multiple times. The female branch is canonically separate but shares deeply in the culture and practice of the male branch. 

 

http://www.iveinfo.org/

 

Caution and prudence are in order whenever discerning with a "newer" community - regardless of how well they seem to be established. The beginning is always very, very hard.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Lilllabettt

[organwerke]

 

Those discerning with the IVE institute should know that the male branch has been troubled and has required Vatican intervention in the leadership structure multiple times. The female branch is canonically separate but shares deeply in the culture and practice of the male branch. 

 

http://www.iveinfo.org/

 

Caution and prudence are in order whenever discerning with a "newer" community - regardless of how well they seem to be established. The beginning is always very, very hard.

 

Thank you Lillabett, it is important to know these facts about new orders when discerning.

I for first am a person who doesn't rely on anyone just because they are priests, or founders, or whatever.

I also know that blog. I also know quite well the order.

What can I say then?

I can't answer for the accusations against fr. Buela (but also, I haven't heard of specific accusations: they are all quite vague). I also read the last article that you can find in the blog. It is really interesting and it seems to be written by a person who knows well the facts but I don't like very much the style of the writer (he seems to be proud of his culture -see the chapter: "the portrait of the priest as a Young man" and similar, and his attitude "I am the only one who really knows the facts"). And the same is for the blog's author.

I can't say of course this is a matter of black/White facts. I had direct contacts with the blog's author  and my simple impression is: even if he can say some truths, I find something in him too that doesn't persuade me too much.

Anyway, this said, I'd like to simply share some opinions based on my personal experience. I personally met a few times the founder (of course not alone but in particular in one occasion I had the privilege to visit his home and share a tea with other women) and I got a very good impression. I didn't have at all the idea of the cult of the person as he seems a very simple and cheerful man. He said really interesting things that made me think.

It is obvious you can't judge a person only by this, but well...

I personally notice that there is a little difference between the male and the female branch.

I think the problems were mainly with the male branch. It is true they are linked but I think the female branch is very healthy. I've known wonderful women there. I have more than a friend there and I visit them quite often. The mother superiors too are wonderful: they are the sweetest, and most charitable and most  lovingly persons you could meet.

So honestly I'd say: in my opinion, if you are a woman, you have nothing to fear. And the fact that there are lots of persons who enter as postulants or novices and then leave, doesn't mean that there is  manipulation with the vocations, on the contrary there is a deep liberty to discern.

Sorry for the long post but I think I should encourage those discerning with this order (if this is God's will for them of course)

[To Jesus Through Mary]

Having been in the Institute, I can tell you the male and female branch and nearly one-in-the-same in regards to structure and formation. They have a different formation process then any other order I have seen and there growth pains. Some of the holiest and kindest priests I know come from this order... but there is definitely a patriarchal structure, and there is certain air of clericalism. There are not American in their processes, that is for sure. Their mission is beautiful. I learned so much there. I loved my superior and my class very much. But I would recommend anyone discerning, any order (especially one less then 50 years old), ask a lot of questions. Do I have to raise funds? How much time will I have to contact family? Who will be in charge of my formation? How much formation do they have? Who will be my spiritual director? How much experience do they have? and so on. Ask the hard questions before entering. It could save you a lot of heartache. 

[PhuturePriest]

Is it really necessary at this point to state that they are women's Orders? Around here it's kind of just assumed. :P

[Benedictus]

Is it really necessary at this point to state that they are women's Orders? Around here it's kind of just assumed. :P

  :smile4:

[Lilllabettt]

. Do I have to raise funds?

 

That is one particular aspect of the SSVM organization which gives me pause. Each individual Sister is expected to raise money from her particular benefactors. Unless things have changed, there is a "target" for each Sister to raise for each month.

 

From my perspective that practice has a lot of potential for abuse. Obviously it is easier for Sisters from wealthier families to do this.  Sisters who come from poor families and cannot ask mom and dad to pony up might struggle to meet their target; they might be made to feel they are not "earning their keep." Biased formation might develop. Just so many ways it could turn into a mess.

 

I'm not saying any of this has EVER happened in any of the SSVM communities. But human nature being what it is, it seems like a less than prudent practice to me.  When I was a Sister we were actively discouraged from asking our families for ANYTHING. They could donate things but it was supposed to be entirely THEIR idea.
 

[To Jesus Through Mary]

That is one particular aspect of the SSVM organization which gives me pause. Each individual Sister is expected to raise money from her particular benefactors. Unless things have changed, there is a "target" for each Sister to raise for each month.

 

From my perspective that practice has a lot of potential for abuse. Obviously it is easier for Sisters from wealthier families to do this.  Sisters who come from poor families and cannot ask mom and dad to pony up might struggle to meet their target; they might be made to feel they are not "earning their keep." Biased formation might develop. Just so many ways it could turn into a mess.

 

I'm not saying any of this has EVER happened in any of the SSVM communities. But human nature being what it is, it seems like a less than prudent practice to me.  When I was a Sister we were actively discouraged from asking our families for ANYTHING. They could donate things but it was supposed to be entirely THEIR idea.
 

 

It was a pretty hard spot for me. The family members who could afford it, wouldn't because they were pretty anti-Catholic. You could tell the sisters whose families donated. But when I was discerning to reenter, that was not a factor. But the waters have the potential of being murky, that is for sure. I think it is a good idea to allow families to decide to donate on their own. Prevents even the appearance of impropriety.  

[Rosary]

I only every discerned and entered (and left)  with the SSVM so only know how they raise money. And have heard the way SSVM does it is not how other orders do so I have been curious as to how other orders get money, food etc. for the sisters?

[Benedictus]

I only every discerned and entered (and left)  with the SSVM so only know how they raise money. And have heard the way SSVM does it is not how other orders do so I have been curious as to how other orders get money, food etc. for the sisters?

Most of the older established orders have a more stable financial picture and are therefore able to support those entering because those before them set the ground work. The income sources depend on the apostolates that they do. If sisters work as chaplains (hospitals, campus, prisons) then they may get paid. The same goes if they work as teachers, university lecturers or whatever it maybe. It's usually the case that money earned by the individual religious becomes that communal money of the community, as does all property that they have that isn't disposed of before they take life vows (this may vary, depending on the statues but this is typical after solemn vows). This money can be banked, invested and so on, Aside from outside work the community may rely on donations of money, land or items or their own industry (making altar breads, rosaries, jams, cakes, vestments, growing veggies or fruits for sale). As most aren't new to doing this type of thing they are in a better financial position to support those in formation, whereas new institutes often aren't. 

[chasmi]

I really don't like the sound of all of this.  And there are people here that criticize other orders...some of which have been in existence for centuries!!!  I caution young (and older) discerners...be careful!!!  I see on here that there are SO may young and inexperienced people entering these new communities...maybe for the wrong reason...a "cool or pretty habit"...they have become enamored with the community...whatever the reason.  I just want to caution everyone.  The world is a tough place and I fear that some of these people that have started these new communities are "tough" as well.  My prayers are with all of you in discernment...

[Benedictus]

I know a former SSVM who attests that this is precisely what happened. She was in charge of accounting/bookkeeping in the convent, and saw a correlation between Sisters who raised a lot of money being "favoured" and treated better than Sisters who did not, in some cases money being a factor in whether these Sisters were allowed to stay at the convent.
 

This was just their perception, but maybe this was driven by necessity rather than desire. It's easy to be uncharitable and make judgements about other people's behaviour and intentions but It's worth being in mind that those who raise the money support those that don't.   But at the same time it's really important to see it from the institutes perspective  - finances are important to supporting a vocation in a new and financially precarious community.  If 90% of the people enter with no financial avenues available to help them then the whole community could collapse. It's sad on a spiritual level for new communities but it's a reality for them, unless they get a millionaire donor or something.  Until it gets more stable its likely that those with the finances will have more success at persevering with their vocation in these communities. I imagine that they tend to notice this trend or hope those with the money end up staying for the benefit of everyone else. The area that probably needs to improve is institutes making the financial situation and requirements clear at the start so the person joining is under no illusions about how the institute is funded generally and how their formation is covered in general. The person should also fully understand the implications of their vows on their freedom to acquire money, property and goods, especially once they take life vows. Do they understand that any legacy or property given to them after their perpetual vows should really be absorbed by their institute or given to someone else? All this should really be known before joining, as I think a few others have said.

 

I really don't like the sound of all of this.  And there are people here that criticize other orders...some of which have been in existence for centuries!!!  I caution young (and older) discerners...be careful!!!  I see on here that there are SO may young and inexperienced people entering these new communities...maybe for the wrong reason...a "cool or pretty habit"...they have become enamored with the community...whatever the reason.  I just want to caution everyone.  The world is a tough place and I fear that some of these people that have started these new communities are "tough" as well.  My prayers are with all of you in discernment...

I think your caution is right, but older orders suffer other problems as they mature. I'm sure some people do sometimes have romantic notions of religious life but it's unlikely, if this was the only attraction, that they'd last long in the religious life once there. I doubt anyone considers a religious life solely because of a 'cool habit' in much the same way people don't just marry for a cool wedding dress. I personally think the excitement and implications of taking a step in a positive direction means you talk about aesthetic things, it doesn't necessarily mean the whole motivation is shallow. 

[Nunsense]

I think your caution is right, but older orders suffer other problems as they mature. I'm sure some people do sometimes have romantic notions of religious life but it's unlikely, if this was the only attraction, that they'd last long in the religious life once there. I doubt anyone considers a religious life solely because of a 'cool habit' in much the same way people don't just marry for a cool wedding dress. I personally think the excitement and implications of taking a step in a positive direction means you talk about aesthetic things, it doesn't necessarily mean the whole motivation is shallow. 

 

 

You make such interesting points Benedictus. On the topic of aesthetics, I don't think it's really much different than how we are attracted to another person. We all have our own ideas of what is attractive to us, but in the end, the externals don't usually stop someone from falling in love or going into a convent that doesn't fulfill all their ideals.

 

And although I agree that romantic notions may not be the only attraction for discerners, I do think that sometimes there is a kind of idealism about religious life that can make it difficult when the reality is faced of human beings living together in community. The first time I met a mean nun in a convent, I have to admit I was shocked. I never went to a Catholic school run by sisters so I had this idealized vision of nuns before I entered. I hope I haven't become a cynic now - just a realist - convents are just like the world in that they have really good people in them, and some who are really not so nice. Learning to live in a community of human beings (not all saints) is the real challenge.

[TheresaThoma]

I think the overall caution here is to be willing to have serious conversations with the community you are discerning with. Some of these questions I hadn't thought of needing to ask but now that they were pointed out I knew I needed to. A couple that come to mind is how does the community sustain itself financially? What about personal financial matters before and after vows? (I know some communities allow members to keep bank accounts and such open until vows) When does one get an official "say" in community matters (novice/temp vows/final vows?).

[nikita92]

Question- if one doesn't have "family" nor friends when they enter into such a community,how does one acquire "benefactor(s)" and how are the "funds" "RAISED" by them? Isn't this just plain having "sugar daddies and mama's" financially supporting you in a round about way once you are "inside"?? You may have the vow of poverty... Yet if it is "donated" in your favor, I'm sure the Thanks but NO THANKS is ever uttered or heard in reply/or response to such a "GIFT"!! What about if I come from a fairly well to do family...or have a son/daughter that has entered...I'm sure alot of parents don't want to see their son or daughter struggling within their community and if they can.. would bestow upon them "gifts" from time to time! Should I be so wrong....