Why The Church Needs "bad Catholics"

[Oremus Pro Invicem]

He's still writing and blogging.His site went down approx. a week ago, but he's resurrecting it (his words not mine). 

 

I feel like I keep repeating myself. 

 

 

So you're saying he is still blogging?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jk Jk JK

[veritasluxmea]

Ok, done some more research.

 

From what I can tell, he signed off for about half a year due to reasons listed in a facebook/blog post I can't find. He's still in school, studying English at FUS. He's been writing for Strange Notions. Starting in the fall he tried to re-launch his blog on his own domain, but that didn't work due to various reasons, mostly financial it seems. On January 21st, he returned to patheos and re-started his blog with a new post. Basically, he's trying to come back again. 

 

I probably still won't follow him that much but cool, best of luck to him. 

Edited January 21, 2015 by veritasluxmea

[veritasluxmea]

No seriously, that's the website. I know him personally.

For whatever reason, it's not working. Look it up on Facebook though, I promise that's his website.

I was redirected to an amazon book called "Bad Catholic" and thought you were making a joke, lol. He's back at patheos now it looks like. 

[Not A Real Name]

Why The Church Needs "bad Catholics"

 

So I can feel better about myself.

[Gabriela]

I thought this was an outstanding article. I forwarded it to my fallen-away advisor, who once told me she's a "bad Catholic", to which I responded, "There's no such thing as a 'good Catholic'".

 

I agree with the author especially that the Church needs "bad Catholics" to highlight and make salient the dialectic between sin and grace. This is the reason I am in love with Thomas Merton. His writing is not sappy. It's not covered in saintliness and holiness to the point that it seems unhuman, pretended, and totally unrelatable. Most saints' writing I find impossible to get through. But because Merton was deeply and truly human, because he struggled to be holy and openly acknowledged that is damned hard, I can fly through his books in one sitting.

 

This may seem odd, but I've also always been of the opinion that sinners are a whole lot more interesting than saints. Maybe it's just because I'm a writer at heart and so I think there's nothing better than a good story. And stories of grace and true conversion are the very best stories—but they presume sin. Related to this (at least in my mind—I'm not sure if others will so easily see the connection) are my frequent reflections that:

 

1. God allows sin and evil and suffering to exist because the story of humanity would be totally boring without it. This solves the problem of evil for me 100%. (If only others could be so easily convinced! ;-) But seriously, think about it: God does love a good story, doesn't He?

 

2. Many religious people I've met are bored to death by "good Christians". They want to marry someone who takes the Faith seriously, but they hope for someone who has "lived a little"—read: "sinned a lot"—because marrying someone who's been "good" from the cradle is like committing intellectual suicide for them.

 

 

This may shock some people, but I have a very real soft spot for the "accommodating", "tolerant", "decadent", and "lax" confessional practice. :hehe: As long as we recognize sin as sin and as long as we do not excuse sin, forgiving it is the easy part.

 

I don't like the lax practice, at least not for myself, but I can totally see how it's a good thing for some Catholics. Indeed:

 

"Which is easier, to say, 'Your sins have been forgiven you,' or to say, 'Get up and walk'?

 

I thought it was interesting that he seemed to fault the way the universal call to holiness has been taught. I'd never thought about it the way that he was proposing it, but what he did with it was really interesting. 

 

I also found this a really interesting insight. It made me think of the rather recent development of considering secular vocations "equal to" religious and priestly vocations. In a way, I think that's done the Church a disservice. And probably it's contributed to the phenomenon that the author is talking about. To me, Jesus' statement that celibacy is superior to marriage is crystal clear. I think the Church should be exempt from the "everyone deserves a trophy" mentality.

 

purer than the driven snow Catholic

 

LOL!

 

Back to the issue of "conscience." The reason I am not a Catholic is that my conscience will not let me join the Catholic Church as long as I still have so many questions. Important note: I am NOT saying the Catholic Church is wrong about ANYTHING. However, over the past few years, I have dug down to my deepest, core values and beliefs, and I can't in good conscience say that I KNOW the Catholic Church is right on all issues. My conscience won't let me become Catholic, because I can't "buy the whole package"--I'd be a "Cafeteria Catholic,' at best. I have asked God to make his will mine, and there have been times in the past few years when I KNEW God wanted me to take a specific action, and I did so. I am clinging to the faith that some day I will understand, and that in the meantime, God will be merciful to me, as long as I keep working to put my heart where God wants it, and trying to be honest with myself and Him.

 

.... my conscience will not let me become Catholic because of my questions.

 

Huh. I guess my conversion was unusual. Certainly an RCIA Director I once spoke to thought it was. My attraction to the Church was so strong that I entered purely out of trust. I looked at the Catholic Church and I just trusted Her. I didn't understand everything She taught—is it possible, even over an entire lifetime, to learn everything She teaches?—but it didn't matter. I looked at Her and I saw love and holiness and reverence for God. And so I said to myself, "This is the true Church, and whatever She teaches, I will accept it, even if I find that hard or don't completely understand it. I will just trust Her and keep trying."

 

My godmother (who usually catechized former Protestants; I was a former Jew) couldn't get her mind around the fact that I did not have questions. That I didn't argue. That I just listened and accepted. My complete trust in the Church eliminated any need I had for purely rational or logical acceptance of dogma.

 

 

 

BTW--As I have said before, if any of you want to pray for me to become Catholic, feel free to do so.

 

I very much doubt you needed to tell us to do that. ;-)

 

all the church really has are bad catholics.

 

Amen.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Gabriela

[Gabriela]

I remember reading his 'resignation' post and thought it was very wise and prudent. I have been having similar feelings to him about the Catholic blogosphere.

 

What were his feelings? Who is this guy? I've never heard of him and don't know the story at all.

 

Fill me in?

[Era Might]

I once took a class on the Catholic Imagination, and we read all kinds of stories and poems by Catholics, mostly modern people before Vatican II, and it was absolutely FILLED with "bad Catholics."

 

Flannery O'Connor has a good story called "The Displaced Person" about a Southern Protestant woman who takes in an Eastern European refugee, who is placed with the woman by a Catholic priest:

 

http://faculty.gordonstate.edu/lsanders-senu/The%20Displaced%20Person.pdf

 

One of the themes of the story is Christ as a displaced person, never really at home, a prophet without honor, nowhere to lay his head, etc.,  and the white Southern lady's sense of who belongs and who doesn't, who deserves and who doesn't. That identification with Christ always with the outsider is a beautiful theme, and O'Connor uses peacocks as another symbol in the story, the family keeps peacocks, this strange and beautiful bird.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Era Might

[Nihil Obstat]

What were his feelings? Who is this guy? I've never heard of him and don't know the story at all.

Fill me in?

It has been a while now, so I do not want to try paraphrasing for fear of misstating his position. Bit basically he was getting disillusioned with the whole blog scene and was not seeing it do much good.

[veritasluxmea]

What were his feelings? Who is this guy? I've never heard of him and don't know the story at all.

 

Fill me in?

 

 

Marc Barnes http://www.patheos.com/blogs/badcatholic/

He was super popular back in the day, or at least with the circles I was visiting and I saw a few of his articles published. I didn't follow him to heavily but now I'm curious 

 

 

 

From what I can tell, he signed off for about half a year due to reasons listed in a facebook/blog post I can't find. He's still in school, studying English at FUS. He's been writing for Strange Notions. Starting in the fall he tried to re-launch his blog on his own domain, but that didn't work due to various reasons, mostly financial it seems. On January 21st, he returned to patheos and re-started his blog with a new post. Basically, he's trying to come back again. 

 

 

 

 He's back at patheos now it looks like. 

[HopefulHeart]

I finally got around to looking at the article. The author made some intriguing points, though I don't think I completely agree with everything he said or implied. Still, it was a thought-provoking read!

 

"Bad Catholics" was definitely a significant genre of writing.  Most people now writing about Catholics seem to fall into two camps: the vitriolic anti-, ex-Catholic, or the purer than the driven snow Catholic.  There is something rather alluring about In This House of Brede's main character having to knock back a couple whiskies before entering the convent.  

 

I agree! I think that writers of Catholic fiction need to inject more earthiness into their characters, rather than making them either completely of the world or so holy that they seem to be not of this world!  :hehe: Maybe that's just the type of fiction that appeals to me personally.

Edited January 26, 2015 by HopefulHeart

[marigold]

I finally got around to looking at the article. The author made some intriguing points, though I don't think I completely agree with everything he said or implied. Still, it was a thought-provoking read!

 

 

I agree! I think that writers of Catholic fiction need to inject more earthiness into their characters, rather than making them either completely of the world or so holy that they seem to be not of this world!  :hehe: Maybe that's just the type of fiction that appeals to me personally.

 

Flannery O'Connor wrote a good deal about what she called 'pious trash' - and I know I've mentioned it on here before - and why Catholic artists in her day failed to make really good true art that said something about the world and about God. She seemed to come to the conclusion that it was a) cowardice in the guise of piety, and b) artistic laziness on the parts of the artists. 'It doesn't need to be good, it just needs to be about God.' (Please don't think I'm picking just on the Catholic Church - a well-known Orthodox priest in the US, Fr. Tom Hopko, has said that our churches seem to be the only places where people who can't do things are permitted and encouraged to do them!)

 

As for 'bad Catholics' making good art - has anyone read The Selfish Giant by Oscar Wilde?? It's one of the most Christian stories I've ever read, and I think Flannery O'Connor would agree. 

 

EDITED TO ADD - Whoops, Oscar Wilde wasn't Catholic. But the point stands :)

Edited January 26, 2015 by marigold

[truthfinder]

Flannery O'Connor wrote a good deal about what she called 'pious trash' - and I know I've mentioned it on here before - and why Catholic artists in her day failed to make really good true art that said something about the world and about God. She seemed to come to the conclusion that it was a) cowardice in the guise of piety, and b) artistic laziness on the parts of the artists. 'It doesn't need to be good, it just needs to be about God.' (Please don't think I'm picking just on the Catholic Church - a well-known Orthodox priest in the US, Fr. Tom Hopko, has said that our churches seem to be the only places where people who can't do things are permitted and encouraged to do them!)

 

As for 'bad Catholics' making good art - has anyone read The Selfish Giant by Oscar Wilde?? It's one of the most Christian stories I've ever read, and I think Flannery O'Connor would agree. 

 

EDITED TO ADD - Whoops, Oscar Wilde wasn't Catholic. But the point stands :)

I just about spat the water I was drinking in regards to the point made about people doing things poorly in church (and I've heard it and seen it).  One priest said that someone just needs to answer honestly when they're asked about the 'art': of aren't they a good singer/good artist? No, they try, but they are not good.

 

And Oscar Wilde was conditionally baptised on his deathbed - so regardless of whatever happened in his life, he died Catholic.

[HopefulHeart]

Flannery O'Connor wrote a good deal about what she called 'pious trash' - and I know I've mentioned it on here before - and why Catholic artists in her day failed to make really good true art that said something about the world and about God. She seemed to come to the conclusion that it was a) cowardice in the guise of piety, and b) artistic laziness on the parts of the artists. 'It doesn't need to be good, it just needs to be about God.' (Please don't think I'm picking just on the Catholic Church - a well-known Orthodox priest in the US, Fr. Tom Hopko, has said that our churches seem to be the only places where people who can't do things are permitted and encouraged to do them!)

 

As for 'bad Catholics' making good art - has anyone read The Selfish Giant by Oscar Wilde?? It's one of the most Christian stories I've ever read, and I think Flannery O'Connor would agree. 

 

EDITED TO ADD - Whoops, Oscar Wilde wasn't Catholic. But the point stands :)

 

I really like what I've read of Flannery O'Connor's work. She had some great insights into the importance of combining both artistic and religious merit in creative work.

 

I have read the "The Selfish Giant." It's a lovely story!  :)

[Amppax]

Lol, the thread becomes the Catholic fiction thread.

Not knocking that at all. Just not my area. Carry on. :like:

Edited to add: I love Oscar Wilde.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Amppax

[marigold]

I just about spat the water I was drinking in regards to the point made about people doing things poorly in church (and I've heard it and seen it).  One priest said that someone just needs to answer honestly when they're asked about the 'art': of aren't they a good singer/good artist? No, they try, but they are not good.

 

And Oscar Wilde was conditionally baptised on his deathbed - so regardless of whatever happened in his life, he died Catholic.

 

Oh good, thanks for straightening that out - I knew there was a link there but didn't remember the deathbed thing.