Schmoozing with bishops and important people - how?

[MarysLittleFlower]

Consider Our Lady - the perfect model of consecrated souls. Did she try to look visible at Mass? No she just prayed. If someone wants to look visible that is a danger to humility. If they're in a position that they are visible, they shouldn't be in it for that. Look at other "important" people. St Joseph - according to.some revelations, came from a richer house but chose a simple hidden life. That is the life of consecarted souls as they imitate the Holy Family.

Those saintly consecrated souls who have a public ministry often have suffered from this because they wanted to be little and humble. Pope St Gregory wanted to be a simple monk. St Teresa reformed her order becase the nuns were talking to important guests in the parlor and wearing jewellery instead of imitating their Crucified Spouse.

Consider the Saints and the words of Our Lord - he who exalts himself shall be humbled. Jesus did not come to be served but to serve. Even to die. Consecrated life is a closer imitation of His life. The Saints suffered when attention was on them... They preferred the company of the poor to those who are important...

Public ministry involved suffering due to this. If you have to do public work its important its done for God alone - the moment I want to look great or important is the moment i have accepted the spirit of the world. This can even infect spirituality. St Francis wanted to be the smallest and thats why he's a great Saint. Consider this my friend, i wish you well and its something i have to remind myself of too. Its for humility sake. 

I would advise you with all my heart not to seek to be important in your diocese but seek to do all for God's love alone. That is the way He would be pleased. if you are brought to public ministry, do it for Him, not to look important. Its safer to not seek this at all and only do it if truly God's Will. The intent to look important for a vocation or for something else is not what our Gospel teaches us. Our role in the Church is to serve, to give of the self and forget the self utterly. That leads to holiness and our vocation is to be made holy. 

Edited September 1, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[MarysLittleFlower]

MLF, it's good that you're willing to answer questions and you're patient, but Oremus's post history makes it pretty clear that she or he is a troll. (I say 'she or he' because there was another user with a similar username who posted identical questions and shared identical stories in an identical writing style who introduced himself as an aspiring priest.) The person behind these accounts, whoever they are, made an anonymous thread in Catholic Q&A that asked how to become a CV when you're not the kind of person to write formal letters to bishops and more the type just to say 'hey'. Every time Oremus is called out on the trolling, s/he disappears for a while, and then resurfaces a few months later to ask the exact the same questions (which are obviously silly questions and not something any discerner is likely to ask, least of all one who claims to be personal friends with bishops - if Oremus were who she says she is then presumably one of her many bishop friends would be advising her on consecration). I don't understand the motives behind this kind of trolling but it's really worth the effort of responding to, and all it will achieve is to put the CV vocation in a ridiculous light.

I see what you mean Beatitude... I remember the past threads. I too wonder why the repeated questions. Oremus if you would be kind to explain to us I'm sure that would help.

I try to not decide people are trolling since it could be something else, and it could be painful to be thought of as a troll. But trolling does exist online and I know on phatmass there have been those times. If someone is a "troll", something brought them here that I do not know. Maybe they need help too. I wish them well then too as they are a real person even if a different person than they present here.

But I understand also what you are saying. I hope if Oremus is genuine they could perhaps explain why this is a continual.struggle, if not too personal, and I hope they have an SD. 

 

Edited September 1, 2015 by MarysLittleFlower

[MarysLittleFlower]

I don't know if I'm right but I just get worried saying someone is a troll.. I used to ask repetitive questions due to a strong anxiety on an issue, but my intent was never trolling. I suppose if someone is a "troll" after all, behind that there a still a real person who God made and loves. I dont know maybe im wrong in how i handle it. Maybe Oremus could help us understand their position and if they are here in a genuine way, I'd want them to know that they are welcome and that there is nothing for them to worry about  

[Ash Wednesday]

Schmooze with the Lord in prayer!

[beatitude]

I don't know if I'm right but I just get worried saying someone is a troll.. I used to ask repetitive questions due to a strong anxiety on an issue, but my intent was never trolling. I suppose if someone is a "troll" after all, behind that there a still a real person who God made and loves. I dont know maybe im wrong in how i handle it. Maybe Oremus could help us understand their position and if they are here in a genuine way, I'd want them to know that they are welcome and that there is nothing for them to worry about  

MLF, I think there is a clear difference between someone who asks questions because they're scrupulous and someone who asks questions because they're trolling. Scrupulosity has its own pattern - the person will ask a question, be reassured for a while, then get unsettled by something, and come to ask for more affirmation. People suffering from scrupulosity are trying to get reassurance for themselves, while a troll is trying to get a reaction from other people - so troll questions are usually outlandish in nature or worded very provocatively ("We all know that the only people priests pay attention to are very important, so how do I..."). Scrupulous questions do not ring false like that even though they may be repetitive. A scrupulous person is also unlikely to invent two different personas, one a CV hopeful and one a would-be priest.

I agree that there is always a reason why people troll, but this does not mean that the most helpful thing to do for them is to play along with it. That doesn't get to what the real problem is and it may only encourage them to keep on doing what they're doing.

[AccountDeleted]

oremus1 - try going to the Bishop and offering him money. Say you will make a huge donation if he will have lunches with you and introduce you to his friends and eventually make you a CV in front of the whole parish (at the Cathedral of course). Make sure that you get a very impressive wedding dress and that the ceremony gets written up in the newspapers (both Catholic and secular). If you can, let the local TV stations know as well. Maybe they would like to do a human interest story on you? Do a youtube video explaining how important you are.

I am sure that someone with your talents and skills can make this work. After all, it's all for God, right? So why not do whatever you can to become a Catholic celebrity CV???

  

[MarysLittleFlower]

Well I got to say I'm happy priests don't only pay attention to the important people otherwise my SD who's a priest would never agree to direct me. But he did so they pay attention to the little peeps too 

MLF, I think there is a clear difference between someone who asks questions because they're scrupulous and someone who asks questions because they're trolling. Scrupulosity has its own pattern - the person will ask a question, be reassured for a while, then get unsettled by something, and come to ask for more affirmation. People suffering from scrupulosity are trying to get reassurance for themselves, while a troll is trying to get a reaction from other people - so troll questions are usually outlandish in nature or worded very provocatively ("We all know that the only people priests pay attention to are very important, so how do I..."). Scrupulous questions do not ring false like that even though they may be repetitive. A scrupulous person is also unlikely to invent two different personas, one a CV hopeful and one a would-be priest.

I agree that there is always a reason why people troll, but this does not mean that the most helpful thing to do for them is to play along with it. That doesn't get to what the real problem is and it may only encourage them to keep on doing what they're doing.

I see what you mean about the distinction.. Hmm... Well Oremus, I wish you well in any case 

[oremus1]

Actually, no the canon 604 does not say that physical virginity is required. And the intro to the Rite just have things live "has not been in public and flagrant violation of chastity" and "has never been married" . This can be interpreted in many ways, in my country, the president of the organization of CVs and CWs (cons widows) and CCs(cons celibates - by changing the words of the Rite) interprets this phrase as has not been involved in really bad things like pole-dancing or posing for pornography etc. We have women who have had former marriages annulled consecrated. So for you to say that Rome has the last word doesn't really work.

The bishop can consecrate whoever he wants. If the bishop doesn't believe that physical virginity is essential he can easily consecrate someone who isn't. Who is going to stop him? How? What if he has already done it? You are talking about whole countries here

You say, go to rome - who would you write to? Cardinal Burke can only give his own opinion, and by the time Rome replies, the person probably already would be consecrated  if you are hoping to be consecrated that is going to annoy your bishop. If women are happy inserting vows into the Rite and wearing habits, and the bishop is happy to perform such things, how can a small person stop this?

Without being rude, you seem very unaware of the kind of stuff that happens re the CV vocation. Should it happen? No. Does it happen? Yes - in entire nations.

Anyway instead of focussing as to why I would ask the question,how about helpful suggestions

[MarysLittleFlower]

Oremus, for some reason a post got quoted as mine that isnt mine.. people who are knowledgeable about the vocation have written before that even though some have the view of non virgins being CVs, the case for that theologically and historically is not strong. To me its not even logical because how can a person consecrate a virginity that they don't have at the moment. Cardinal Burke is a very orthodox Cardinal so that's enough for me. In addition I read about the CDF responding to his question about this *confirming* his view. So though some people have different views, his view is the most supportable. Even from a traditional understanding. This is not in the same list as wearing habits. This is not just a preference - this is something that would affect validity. The fact that some have a different view doesn't change that multiple answers to this can't all be right. i have no idea if you have a personal reason for asking this or not. If you do not have a personal reason, my suggestion would be to just not worry about things we can't control right now and discern your own vocation. If you do, all this can be upsetting and confusing, but I'm saying what has been explained as the most supportable and strongest view. Just the fact the Cardinal Burke has it - though he's not the Pope or infallible, his judgement is pretty trustworthy. If a very orthodox Cardinal has an interpretation - that is support for that interpretation. 

The person who would know more about this on the phorum is Sponsa Christi. 

But she's written on this question before http://sponsa-christi.blogspot.ca/2011/01/charism-of-virginity.html?m=1

 

But she's written on this question before http://sponsa-christi.blogspot.ca/2011/01/charism-of-virginity.html?m=1

 

[MarysLittleFlower]

The "public violation of chastity" part could also be there just because canon law's relation to the persons internal forum. But it doesn't mean that a strong case could be made for non virgins becoming CVs. 

[Ash Wednesday]

Anyway instead of focussing as to why I would ask the question,how about helpful suggestions

The problem is, you generally ignore what people suggest and these threads end up just going in circles.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here -- but we don't know your situation first hand, so there hasn't been a lot that we've said that you've found helpful. You also state that YOU wish to become a CV -- is this what God is calling you to? There is a difference between wanting a vocation, and being CALLED to it.

We don't know your parish, we don't know your bishop. If you really are called to be a CV, take it to prayer, get involved in your parish, and the Lord will eventually open doors and guide you to wherever you need to be. There really is no guide book or set of rules on "how to become an onstentatious person in church" and you're not going to find your answers on the internet.

[veritasluxmea]

 

Modern day translation: Don't feed the trolls 

Edited September 3, 2015 by veritasluxmea

[hotpink]

Isn't this the millionth thread you've posted about getting close to a bishop.  Seriously, I'd be concerned.  Bishops are just humans, but they are in a position of power for a reason.  They aren't going to be snowballed.  You have had parish trouble after parish trouble.  Appealing to the Bishop, or turning into his buddy will never help matters.  You would be wise to seek out good council of your own gender through either a 3rd order or an established monistary or convent.  Their spiritual information would be a beautiful way to share.