I'm Not Gay Are You?

[Benedictus]

It's situation based and wise discernment is important.  We all have our own skills, expertise, limits and boundaries. You don't use the same methods for every task and some people are more disposed or skilled to deal with certain things. We don't all need to do everything, simply our best. We're a big body.

A distorted view of utility and action was used to persecute enclosed monastics. There are different ways of being and acting. They aren't opposed, they complement eachother.

[Ice_nine]

Maybe we can all post our stats on how many gay SSA people we have successfully proselytized and see whose methods are more effective.

[Gabriela]

7 hours ago, Ice_nine said:

Maybe we can all post our stats on how many gay SSA people we have successfully proselytized and see whose methods are more effective.

0. Null. The empty set.

But not for want of trying!

(I did once turn a gay man straight. That's not for online discussion, though. )

Edited December 1, 2015 by Gabriela

[marigold]

13 hours ago, Gabriela said:

0. Null. The empty set.

But not for want of trying!

(I did once turn a gay man straight. That's not for online discussion, though. )

Gabriela!

[Gabriela]

7 hours ago, marigold said:

Gabriela!

[Socrates]

On 11/29/2015, 4:41:40, marigold said:

 

Thank you for your thoughts, Socrates. I highlighted a couple of things in my earlier post that might not have been as emphasised as I meant them to be.

I don't know about greater goods or official categorisations of works - that goes over my head a bit, sorry - but if I knew people who were going hungry, etc., and chose not to help them, then I would be failing in my Christian duty. And I agree that admonition and instruction ought to be included in that. But I'm saying that we confuse the latter for love itself. I think your comments about 'simply "love" them' and warm feelings are revealing; - there is this thought that love itself must not be enough, if love is just fuzzy stuff. But when I see how saints love people... To love people as Christ loves us, that's not fuzzy! That doesn't let us get away with anything! It's a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. I can't explain it well, but this undercurrent of a separation between loving as feelings and instruction as duty - it goes very deep and can be quite sneaky.

Can't disagree with anything you've said there.  If you're just making the point that, as St. Paul says, without love you're but a noisy gong or clanging symbol, then I agree.

My issue was with the statement "I don't believe it's my Christian duty to help anyone do anything."  I believe it's our Christian duty to help our brothers and sisters get to heaven - or so I was taught.  But, of course, if we truly love others as Christ wants, that will follow.  I disagree with those who say we must never teach truth to others on certain "controversial" topics because it's "not loving," but that doesn't appear to be what you're saying here.

This is a bit like the whole "Faith and Works" issue.  ("Faith without works is dead.")

On 11/24/2015, 4:57:33, IgnatiusofLoyola said:

Sorry K of C (and MLF), but it's just not that black and white. I know you want it to be, but it's just not. I'd say that I'll see what you think about this 30-40 years from now, but I won't be around on earth anymore. We can talk about it in heaven.

My ex-husband came out as gay at 40. I know he really didn't want to be gay. But, he also realized he needed to act on his homosexual feelings, and neither of us could live in a marriage that didn't at least TRY to be monogamous.

Not sure how to say this without sounding like an insensitive jerk, but strictly speaking, nobody actually needs to act on feelings towards immoral behavior of any kind.

Engaging in homosexual behavior is wrong, just as it is wrong for a man to leave his wife or commit adultery because he feels a need to have sex with other women.

This isn't to say that doing the right, moral thing isn't sometimes extremely hard.  Often, it is only possible through God's grace.

[marigold]

5 hours ago, Socrates said:

Can't disagree with anything you've said there.  If you're just making the point that, as St. Paul says, without love you're but a noisy gong or clanging symbol, then I agree.

My issue was with the statement "I don't believe it's my Christian duty to help anyone do anything."  I believe it's our Christian duty to help our brothers and sisters get to heaven - or so I was taught.  But, of course, if we truly love others as Christ wants, that will follow.  I disagree with those who say we must never teach truth to others on certain "controversial" topics because it's "not loving," but that doesn't appear to be what you're saying here.

This is a bit like the whole "Faith and Works" issue.  ("Faith without works is dead.")

My bad, the emphasis I had intended clearly didn't come across I should learn how to write properly instead of relying on accentuation! I think we are basically agreed at this point. Love first, but love always includes action. Right?