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Ice_nine

should i vote to legalize it?

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NadaTeTurbe
21 hours ago, Ice_nine said:

I don't really appreciate the tone here, but I know English isn't your first language so maybe you're not trying to sound rude. But I'll play.

I don't think US Americans are getting their mj from Morocco. Maybe from Central America, sure (and that's problematic) but lots of the stuff is "homegrown." And if it were legalized it would take away the criminal element under which unjust labor practices exist. It wouldn't eradicate it of course.

Also with ANY product there are likely to be problems on the supply side with unjust labor practices. I wouldn't chastise someone for eating their fruits and veggies, because they are good for you, but they may have been harvested by migrant workers who are getting paid crappily and treated crappily. Also you know those cool laptops and smartphones we all use? Lots of the minerals needed to make these products can be found exclusively on the African continent. People, children even, risk life and limb to mine this stuff so they can scrape enough money together to survive. Does that make you feel good?

Of course, things are complicated. If a Westerner tried to shut down these operations out of compassion, they'd be reviled or killed. I remember Christopher Hitchens brother told a story about visiting some place in Africa where diamonds are mined or something and because he was a white guy the miners thought he was gonna shut it down. So they basically tried to chase him down and kill him. Because even though their treatment and working conditions were deplorable, it's all they had.

 

So what would you do, right now, if your bishops urged you to vote against it?

Yes, I did not mean it in a agressive way, but reading it again, it sounds like it, sorry. 

It just drive me crazy, because I'm seeing right now many life destroyed by marijuana. My sister was an addict. She's not anymore, but she have a shorter attention span, facial disfigurement, and will have trouble to keep a work in the future. Same thing for many friends. I used to smoke when i was in high school - we even tried to grow marijuana in our room when I was in boarding school. Some of my friends who smoked with me became nearly, when I have nothing. 

If my bishop urged me to vote against it, I would vote against it. Without thinking twice. 

The teaching of the Church on marijuana is the following : 

The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law." (§2291)

Using marijuana is a mortal sin according to most priest that I know. Would you vote to legalize a mortal (or venial) sin ? 

Btw, it's not only the bishops. It's also the Pope : 

While self-proclaimed practicing Catholic Justin Trudeau publicly called for the legalization of marijuana this week, in another hemisphere Pope Francis took an a unequivocal stand against the “liberalization of drug use.” https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pope-francis-slams-liberalization-of-drug-use-as-catholic-trudeau-campaigns

“The scourge of drug use continues to spread inexorably, fed by a deplorable commerce which transcends national and continental borders,” he said. “Attempts, however limited, to legalize so-called ‘recreational drugs,’ are not only highly questionable from a legislative standpoint, but they fail to produce the desired effects,” the pope said. http://www.thecannabist.co/2016/07/28/italy-recreational-marijuana-pope-francis/59658/ 

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Josh
On Monday, November 28, 2016 at 11:08 AM, Josh said:

Smoke weed everyday (Nate Dogg Voice)

 

Rip Nate Dogg. Anyone under 18/21 should be completely sober 24/7 and if an adult is wise they will do the same thing. But the fact that a lot of people (especially minorities) are in prison for a plant that God called very good on the first page of the Bible is horrible. Here's a good 5 minute video on this https://youtu.be/CJlqsdezhhk

 

Edited by Josh

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dominicansoul

I think marijuana has great uses for health problems.  And Bishops can have lots of opinions, you don't have to agree with them all.

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vee
10 minutes ago, dominicansoul said:

I think marijuana has great uses for health problems.  And Bishops can have lots of opinions, you don't have to agree with them all.

Maybe you should get a prescription.  

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Benedictus

I don't believe drug possession should be a punishment issue, but a rehabilitative and social one. There's many saying certain drugs should be tested and used for medical use if there's benefits, which seems reasonable too.

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little2add

Recreational drug use often leads to adiction, abuse and ultimately untimely death.   Legalization might just escalate the problem 

Pot is a gateway drug

For some people

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havok579257
On 4/8/2017 at 8:28 PM, Benedictus said:

I don't believe drug possession should be a punishment issue, but a rehabilitative and social one. There's many saying certain drugs should be tested and used for medical use if there's benefits, which seems reasonable too.

so don't punish the drug dealers who feed these drugs into society?

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cmealer
On 12/1/2016 at 10:04 AM, Josh said:

a plant that God called very good on the first page of the Bible

He also called hemlock very good, but I have no intention of consuming that one either. 

 

 

On 4/8/2017 at 8:28 PM, Benedictus said:

 

I don't believe drug possession should be a punishment issue, but a rehabilitative and social one.

 

There are likely rehabilitative elements that need to be pursued, but punishment both satisfies justice and is intended to assist them by allowing them to act the right way to at least avoid punishment if they can't do it for a better reason. 

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Benedictus
On 13/04/2017 at 0:17 AM, little2add said:

Recreational drug use often leads to adiction, abuse and ultimately untimely death.   Legalization might just escalate the problem 

Pot is a gateway drug

For some people

All drugs can do that, including alcohol and tobacco. That doesn't stop people getting addicted, abusing them and even dying. The current system doesn't work and gives a person a criminal record for life, which isn't going to help and will probably exasperate the situation as it could reduce social and economic progress. 

There might well be an increase in the short term but if the money from prison and criminal justice was invested in education and rehabilitative programs then it should decline over time. Paternalism doesn't work and is costing more and not producing benefits. The definition of stupidity is to keep repeating something that doesn't work in the hope of a different outcome.

People who end up addicted to drugs often have complicated issues and to suggest the threat of possible arrest will work and is the answer doesn't seem to be true based on the reality. In my opinion it's a medical and social issue and unless the person harms or injures another then it shouldn't be a police matter.

 

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little2add

From 2002 to 2015 there was a 5.9-fold increase in the total number of deaths.

 

National Overdose Deaths—Number of Deaths from Heroin and Non-Methadone Synthetics.National Overdose Deaths—Number of Deaths from Heroin and Non-Methadone Synthetics. The figure above is a bar chart showing the total number of U.S. overdose deaths involving heroin and non-methadone synthetics from 2002 to 2015. The latter category is dominated by illicit fentanyl overdose; when combined with heroin, these numbers capture illicit opioid deaths. The chart is overlayed by a line graph showing the number of deaths of females and males. From 2002 to 2015 there was a 5.9-fold increase in the total number of deaths.

 

7 minutes ago, Benedictus said:

Recreational drug use often leads to adiction, abuse and ultimately untimely death.   Legalization might just escalate the problem 

Pot is a gateway drug

For some people

 

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Benedictus
On 13/04/2017 at 5:00 AM, havok579257 said:

so don't punish the drug dealers who feed these drugs into society?

That's why there's an important difference between what's classed as possession, especially for personal use, and what is classified as supplying or dealing.

The dealer is simply meeting demand, and hoping to increase that demand. It works on the same level as any other capitalist venture -  reduce costs and risk whilst seeking to increase demand and supply to generate profit.

The Government could choose to focus resources on taking out dealers and suppliers. But if it's lucrative then they will be replaced. It makes sense to also cut the illegal monopoly of supply by providing drugs that are safer, taxed and regulated. It would take out many criminals over night and provide a good income for the government to invest in education and social programs around these issues.

3 minutes ago, little2add said:

From 2002 to 2015 there was a 5.9-fold increase in the total number of deaths.

 

National Overdose Deaths—Number of Deaths from Heroin and Non-Methadone Synthetics.National Overdose Deaths—Number of Deaths from Heroin and Non-Methadone Synthetics. The figure above is a bar chart showing the total number of U.S. overdose deaths involving heroin and non-methadone synthetics from 2002 to 2015. The latter category is dominated by illicit fentanyl overdose; when combined with heroin, these numbers capture illicit opioid deaths. The chart is overlayed by a line graph showing the number of deaths of females and males. From 2002 to 2015 there was a 5.9-fold increase in the total number of deaths.

 

 

It doesn't surprise me. This actually just shows how the current system is failing and how money is being pumped into the wrong strategies. It's not like policy makers haven't known this all for years! There's new drugs coming out all the time too. 

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Benedictus
On 13/04/2017 at 9:37 PM, cmealer said:

He also called hemlock very good, but I have no intention of consuming that one either. 

 

 

There are likely rehabilitative elements that need to be pursued, but punishment both satisfies justice and is intended to assist them by allowing them to act the right way to at least avoid punishment if they can't do it for a better reason. 

I don't think justice has anything to do with why things are as they are.  The current system is probably kept as it it because there is a lack of humility to admit mistakes and failed narratives. On top of that there's a fear of admitting a lack of effective control through existing power structures.

Whilst policy makers keep telling people what they like to hear, rather than what is needed and could work, then things won't improve as it doesn't suit those in power to do anything about it.

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