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Ice_nine

should i vote to legalize it?

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Benedictus
On 13/04/2017 at 0:17 AM, little2add said:

Recreational drug use often leads to adiction, abuse and ultimately untimely death.   Legalization might just escalate the problem 

Pot is a gateway drug

For some people

All drugs can do that, including alcohol and tobacco. That doesn't stop people getting addicted, abusing them and even dying. The current system doesn't work and gives a person a criminal record for life, which isn't going to help and will probably exasperate the situation as it could reduce social and economic progress. 

There might well be an increase in the short term but if the money from prison and criminal justice was invested in education and rehabilitative programs then it should decline over time. Paternalism doesn't work and is costing more and not producing benefits. The definition of stupidity is to keep repeating something that doesn't work in the hope of a different outcome.

People who end up addicted to drugs often have complicated issues and to suggest the threat of possible arrest will work and is the answer doesn't seem to be true based on the reality. In my opinion it's a medical and social issue and unless the person harms or injures another then it shouldn't be a police matter.

 

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little2add

From 2002 to 2015 there was a 5.9-fold increase in the total number of deaths.

 

National Overdose Deaths—Number of Deaths from Heroin and Non-Methadone Synthetics.National Overdose Deaths—Number of Deaths from Heroin and Non-Methadone Synthetics. The figure above is a bar chart showing the total number of U.S. overdose deaths involving heroin and non-methadone synthetics from 2002 to 2015. The latter category is dominated by illicit fentanyl overdose; when combined with heroin, these numbers capture illicit opioid deaths. The chart is overlayed by a line graph showing the number of deaths of females and males. From 2002 to 2015 there was a 5.9-fold increase in the total number of deaths.

 

7 minutes ago, Benedictus said:

Recreational drug use often leads to adiction, abuse and ultimately untimely death.   Legalization might just escalate the problem 

Pot is a gateway drug

For some people

 

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Benedictus
On 13/04/2017 at 5:00 AM, havok579257 said:

so don't punish the drug dealers who feed these drugs into society?

That's why there's an important difference between what's classed as possession, especially for personal use, and what is classified as supplying or dealing.

The dealer is simply meeting demand, and hoping to increase that demand. It works on the same level as any other capitalist venture -  reduce costs and risk whilst seeking to increase demand and supply to generate profit.

The Government could choose to focus resources on taking out dealers and suppliers. But if it's lucrative then they will be replaced. It makes sense to also cut the illegal monopoly of supply by providing drugs that are safer, taxed and regulated. It would take out many criminals over night and provide a good income for the government to invest in education and social programs around these issues.

3 minutes ago, little2add said:

From 2002 to 2015 there was a 5.9-fold increase in the total number of deaths.

 

National Overdose Deaths—Number of Deaths from Heroin and Non-Methadone Synthetics.National Overdose Deaths—Number of Deaths from Heroin and Non-Methadone Synthetics. The figure above is a bar chart showing the total number of U.S. overdose deaths involving heroin and non-methadone synthetics from 2002 to 2015. The latter category is dominated by illicit fentanyl overdose; when combined with heroin, these numbers capture illicit opioid deaths. The chart is overlayed by a line graph showing the number of deaths of females and males. From 2002 to 2015 there was a 5.9-fold increase in the total number of deaths.

 

 

It doesn't surprise me. This actually just shows how the current system is failing and how money is being pumped into the wrong strategies. It's not like policy makers haven't known this all for years! There's new drugs coming out all the time too. 

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Benedictus
On 13/04/2017 at 9:37 PM, cmealer said:

He also called hemlock very good, but I have no intention of consuming that one either. 

 

 

There are likely rehabilitative elements that need to be pursued, but punishment both satisfies justice and is intended to assist them by allowing them to act the right way to at least avoid punishment if they can't do it for a better reason. 

I don't think justice has anything to do with why things are as they are.  The current system is probably kept as it it because there is a lack of humility to admit mistakes and failed narratives. On top of that there's a fear of admitting a lack of effective control through existing power structures.

Whilst policy makers keep telling people what they like to hear, rather than what is needed and could work, then things won't improve as it doesn't suit those in power to do anything about it.

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Benedictus

Sharing best practice, changing the model on how to tackle addiction (treatment rather than prison) and a stronger educational focus much earlier on. It's like thinking jail can help an alcoholic in the long term -  almost everyone knows it won't.

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JazzCleo

As a former pothead, I'm conflicted but leaning more towards anti-legalization. I know the negative side of pot and feel it put me in a financial/emotional/social/spiritual limbo that I didn't recognize for years. It did make me more lax about other drugs and it did impair judgment. Was it as devastating as being an alcoholic or heroine addict? No, but it can still be debilitating in its own way.

I have friends that are still potheads, some with successful careers and some just getting by. The one common thread is they are all complacent about life and not in a blissful way. Their mental states range from numb to miserably nihilistic. One friend is seriously addicted and it's leading to a cycle of depression because she can't go a day without and then feels worthless because of it. I'm happy to be free of marijuana dependency. If I had kids or could advise anyone now, I would say you're better of without it.

On the other hand, the war on pot is kind of dumb and resources are wasted in pursuit of it. That said, does that mean society should just give in because the fight is futile? I see nothing wrong with medical marijuana (although most px use is fraudulent, one of my dealers was licensed in 2001 and I had no ailments) but what is happening is a normalization because people feel like it's already going on, so why fight it. That defeatist attitude also happened with standing up for sexual abstenance, for example. I don't think the witch hunt for marijuana abusers and dealers should continue as is, but what is going on now is a joke. 

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Nihil Obstat
3 hours ago, JazzCleo said:

 

I cannot see your profile picture very well, but I think I really love it.  :like2: In that tiny thumbnail it reminds me of La Danse by David Hamilton.

$_3.JPG

 

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