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little2add

when does the soul enter the body

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little2add
On 9/4/2017 at 11:47 AM, JJJPK said:

Yes, conception without doubt. You have a zygote, you have a soul there.

Genetically, of course there is no  doubt 

 Scientifically  some  argue that  it is only a blob of tissue at this stage.  How quaint  this line of thinking is!

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Peace

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19741118_declaration-abortion_en.html

19. This declaration expressly leaves aside the question of the moment when the spiritual soul is infused. There is not a unanimous tradition on this point and authors are as yet in disagreement. For some it dates from the first instant; for others it could not at least precede nidation. It is not within the competence of science to decide between these views, because the existence of an immortal soul is not a question in its field. It is a philosophical problem from which our moral affirmation remains independent for two reasons: (1) supposing a belated animation, there is still nothing less than a human life, preparing for and calling for a soul in which the nature received from parents is completed, (2) on the other hand, it suffices that this presence of the soul be probable (and one can never prove the contrary) in order that the taking of life involve accepting the risk of killing a man, not only waiting for, but already in possession of his soul.

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Child of the child

At conception, God doesn't need the trimester or any amount of to decide whether the soul will live forever. Jeremiah 1:5 says God knew us before we were conceived. St Thomas Aquinas talked on this also. Love the Lord, Jesus is Real

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phatcatholic

"Certainly no experimental datum can be in itself sufficient to bring us to the recognition of a spiritual soul; nevertheless, the conclusions of science regarding the human embryo provide a valuable indication for discerning by the use of reason a personal presence at the moment of this first appearance of a human life: how could a human individual not be a human person? The Magisterium has not expressly committed itself to an affirmation of a philosophical nature, but it constantly reaffirms the moral condemnation of any kind of procured abortion. This teaching has not been changed and is unchangeable.(26)

Thus the fruit of human generation, from the first moment of its existence, that is to say from the moment the zygote has formed, demands the unconditional respect that is morally due to the human being in his bodily and spiritual totality. The human being is to be respected and treated as a person from the moment of conception; and therefore from that same moment his rights as a person must be recognized, among which in the first place is the inviolable right of every innocent human being to life."

-- Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, "Instruction on Respect for Human Life in Its Origin and on the Dignity of Procreation: Replies to Certain Questions of the Day" (Feb 22, 1987)

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Child of the child

Sorry phatcatholic not to be rude , but i don't really understand your message asks what angle your coming from on your first paragraph. Yes a child should be respected at conception, and the first thing a baby should witness is love grin the parents and not a decision to kill/abort the baby. 

The soul long lives with the Lord. 

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A Yearning Heart

Conception. 

Identical twins are very interesting as the split occurs after the zygote forms, but is still very early (within days). Maybe one soul with one zygote, then another soul when the second starts to form? Can't be measured, but God knows :)   

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PadrePioOfPietrelcino

I don't have an exact position on this, because there are too many biological anomalies which raise significant questions. Like what about when there are two embyros present and one absorbs the other (I forget the technical term for the process), did one sibling just kill the other? which soul survived? Human Life no doubt begins at conception, but when that life gains personhood is definitely an open question.

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Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

The souls of the predestined perhaps have always existed belonging to god. These bodies are temporary.

 

On 12/10/2017 at 8:10 AM, Child of the child said:

Sorry phatcatholic not to be rude , but i don't really understand your message asks what angle your coming from on your first paragraph. Yes a child should be respected at conception, and the first thing a baby should witness is love grin the parents and not a decision to kill/abort the baby. 

The soul long lives with the Lord. 

That be the soul longs to be with the lord. Silly duck billz. :P:topsy::rolleyes:

 

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White Knight

Everyone here has said the process of ensoulment begins at conception, logically it makes the most sense, why would there be any delay in the baby receiving a soul? it just opens up too many gaps so say otherwise.

1000% percent sure the baby has a soul right at conception. 

 

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PadrePioOfPietrelcino

https://www.ncbcenter.org/files/3914/7018/8754/MSOB033_Do_Embryos_Have_Souls.pdf

Here is good article on the issue in basic terms, Fr. Tad came to Kenrick Seminary this last semester and did a few hours of presenting on this topic. He did a very convincing job of it and I can tell you that prior to listening to him I would have said ensoulment and conception go together, however with my exposure to his talks and the various points to be made on all sides I am in line with his position, that the exact timing does not matter and it is clearly an open question

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