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ICTHUS

Birth Control Debate

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ICTHUS

Anyone feel like debating the Church's teachings on birth control with a bunch of Presbyterians and a couple of Baptists?

I've been trying to, with limited success, and my brain is fried, and I have other things to do - like study for Chemistry. However, I do not want the teachings of Christ's Church to be discredited.

Our good friend mustbenothing moderates the Theology forum on http://www.christianguitar.org however he has not popped his head into the debate...yet....

The debate is here

http://www.christianguitar.org/forums/show...?t=58898&page=1

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help!!!

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Mary's Knight, La

while i'm not going to jump into it myself, the answer to alot of their questions about "what birth control is allowed" is that the rhythm method allows for the possibility of a baby to be conceived through normal means, it just makes the chance of that happening rely more on God's perfect will rather than passive will.

as for the rest that would require a longer post than i have time for

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ironmonk

I don't have time to, but here are some resources for you...

Contraception - Why not?

http://nfpsite.port5.com/bbc1.html

Ask Father - Birth Control

http://www.cin.org/mateo/9601153.html

Catholics, Protestants, & Contraception

http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft9904...echterlein.html

Contraceptions and the Trivialization of Sex

http://www.cuf.org/july99a.htm

Father knows best - Early Church Fathers (all the way back to 74 AD)

http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/FKBCONTR.HTM

Bitter fruits of Contraception

http://www.catholicherald.com/saunders/98w...ws/ws980903.htm

Rejecting Humanae Vitae is a Sin

http://www.catholic-pages.com/morality/hv-angelini.asp

Humanae Vitae

http://www.petersnet.net/browse/450.htm

Consequences of Artificial Methods

17. Responsible men can become more deeply convinced of the truth of the doctrine laid down by the Church on this issue if they reflect on the consequences of methods and plans for artificial birth control. Let them first consider how easily this course of action could open wide the way for marital infidelity and a general lowering of moral standards. Not much experience is needed to be fully aware of human weakness and to understand that human beings—and especially the young, who are so exposed to temptation—need incentives to keep the moral law, and it is an evil thing to make it easy for them to break that law. Another effect that gives cause for alarm is that a man who grows accustomed to the use of contraceptive methods may forget the reverence due to a woman, and, disregarding her physical and emotional equilibrium, reduce her to being a mere instrument for the satisfaction of his own desires, no longer considering her as his partner whom he should surround with care and affection.

Finally, careful consideration should be given to the danger of this power passing into the hands of those public authorities who care little for the precepts of the moral law. Who will blame a government which in its attempt to resolve the problems affecting an entire country resorts to the same measures as are regarded as lawful by married people in the solution of a particular family difficulty? Who will prevent public authorities from favoring those contraceptive methods which they consider more effective? Should they regard this as necessary, they may even impose their use on everyone. It could well happen, therefore, that when people, either individually or in family or social life, experience the inherent difficulties of the divine law and are determined to avoid them, they may give into the hands of public authorities the power to intervene in the most personal and intimate responsibility of husband and wife.

Then you have all the bible stuff....

Gen 1:28, 9:1,7; 35:11 - from the beginning, the Lord commands us to be fruitful ("fertile") and multiply. A husband and wife fulfill God's plan for marriage in the bringing forth of new life, for God is life itself.

Gen. 28:3 - Isaac's prayer over Jacob shows that fertility and procreation are considered blessings from God.

Gen. 38:8-10 - Onan is killed by God for practicing contraception (in this case, withdrawal) and spilling his semen on the ground.

Gen. 38:11-26 - Judah, like Onan, also rejected God's command to keep up the family lineage, but he was not killed.

Deut. 25:7-10 - the penalty for refusing to keep up lineage is not death, like Onan received. Onan was killed for wasting seed.

Gen. 38:9 - also, the author's usage of the graphic word "seed," which is very uncharacteristic for Hebrew writing, further highlights the reason for Onan's death.

Exodus 23:25-26; Deut. 7:13-14 - God promises blessings which include no miscarriages or barrenness. Children are blessings from God, and married couples must always be open to God's plan for new life with every act of marital intimacy.

Lev.18:22-23;20:13 - wasting seed with non-generative sexual acts warrants death. Many Protestant churches, which have all strayed from the Catholic Church, reject this fundamental truth (few Protestants and Catholics realize that contraception was condemned by all of Christianity - and other religions - until the Anglican church permitted it in certain cases at the Lambeth conference in 1930).

Lev. 21:17,20 - crushed testicles are called a defect and a blemish before God. God reveals that deliberate sterilization and any other methods which prevent conception are intrinsically evil.

Deut. 23:1 - whoever has crushed testicles or is castrated cannot enter the assembly. Contraception is objectively sinful and contrary, not only to God's Revelation, but the moral and natural law.

Deut. 25:11-12 - there is punishment for potential damage to the testicles, for such damage puts new life at risk. It, of course, follows that vasectomies, which are done with willful consent, are gravely contrary to the natural law.

1 Chron. 25:5 - God exalts His people by blessing them with many children. When married couples contracept, they are declaring "not your will God, but my will be done."

Psalm 127:3-5 - children are a gift of favor from God and blessed is a full quiver. Married couples must always be open to God's precious gift of life. Contraception, which shows a disregard for human life, has lead to the great evils of abortion, euthanasia, and infanticide.

Hosea 9:11; Jer. 18:21 - God punishes Israel by preventing pregnancy. Contraception is a curse.

Mal. 2:14 - marriage is not a contract (which is a mere exchange of property or services). It is a covenant, which means a supernatural exchange of persons. Just as God is three in one, so are a husband and wife, who become one flesh and bring forth new life, three in one. Marital love is a reflection of the Blessed Trinity.

Mal. 2:15 - What does God desire? Godly offspring. What is contraception? A deliberate act against God's will. With contraception, a couple declares, "God may want an eternal being created with our union, but we say no." Contraception is a grave act of selfishness.

Matt. 19:5-6 - Jesus said a husband and wife shall become one. They are no longer two, but one, just as God is three persons, yet one.

Matt. 19:6; Eph. 5:31 - contraception prevents God's ability to "join" together. Just as Christ's love for the Church is selfless and sacrificial, and a husband and wife reflect this union, so a husband and wife's love for each other must also be selfless and sacrificial. This means being open to new life.

Acts 5:1-11 - Ananias and Sapphira were slain because they withheld part of a gift. Fertility is a gift from God and cannot be withheld.

Rom.1:26-27 - sexual acts without the possibility of procreation is sinful. Self-giving love is life-giving love, or the love is a lie. The unitive and procreative elements of marital love can never be divided, or the marital love is also divided, and God is left out of the marriage.

1 Cor. 6:19-20 - the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit; thus, we must glorify God in our bodies by being open to His will.

1 Cor. 7:5 - this verse supports the practice of natural family planning ("NFP"). Married couples should not refuse each other except perhaps by agreement for a season, naturally.

Gal. 6:7-8 - God is not mocked for what a man sows. If to the flesh, corruption. If to the Spirit, eternal life.

Eph. 5:25 - Paul instructs husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the Church, by giving his entire body to her and holding nothing back. With contraception, husbands tell their wives, I love you except your fertility, and you can have me except for my fertility. This love is a lie because it is self-centered, and not self-giving and life-giving.

Eph. 5:29-31; Phil. 3:2 - mutilating the flesh (e.g., surgery to prevent conception) is gravely sinful. Many Protestant churches reject this truth.

1 Tim. 2:15 - childbearing is considered a "work" through which women may be saved by God's grace.

Rev. 9:21; 21:8; 22:15; Gal. 5:20 - these verses mention the word "sorcery." The Greek word is "pharmakeia" which includes abortifacient potions such as birth control pills. These pharmakeia are mortally sinful. Moreover, chemical contraception does not necessarily prevent conception, but may actually kill the child in the womb after conception has occurred (by preventing the baby from attaching to the uternine wall). Contraception is a lie that has deceived millions, but the Church is holding her arms open wide to welcome back her children who have strayed from the truth.

God Bless,

ironmonk

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cmotherofpirl

Anyone feel like debating the Church's teachings on birth control with a bunch of Presbyterians and a couple of Baptists?

I've been trying to, with limited success, and my brain is fried, and I have other things to do - like study for Chemistry. However, I do not want the teachings of Christ's Church to be discredited.

Our good friend mustbenothing moderates the Theology forum on http://www.christianguitar.org however he has not popped his head into the debate...yet....

The debate is here

http://www.christianguitar.org/forums/show...?t=58898&page=1

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help!!!

What is their basic position?

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Donna

OK. Icthus, I actually looked at 2 pages of this debate, and I regret it.

What a bunch of impure vile. Reading this stuff is an ocassion of sin.

No joke, I'd just pray for them. (Sorry no help, I could not be a party to sending you or anyone back there.)

P.S. After being there, I have a new appreciation and gratitude for the majority of conduct of the pm-ers.

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ICTHUS

What is their basic position?

Their basic position: Birth control is fine and dandy, and the Church Fathers were wrong when they spoke against it.

Basically they think its a Romanist invention, like they do Purgatory.

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Jake Huether

while i'm not going to jump into it myself, the answer to alot of their questions about "what birth control is allowed" is that the rhythm method allows for the possibility of a baby to be conceived through normal means, it just makes the chance of that happening rely more on God's perfect will rather than passive will.

as for the rest that would require a longer post than i have time for

Just thought I'd mention that Natural Family Planning (NFP) is not the "rhythm method".

The "rhythm method", while natural, is very unreliable. And if you were to even mention it among proponents of contraception, you are asking for a whoooping.

But if you replace "rhythm method" with NFP, you are spot on, Mary's Knight.

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